Won’t go into neutral with motor running

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by MotorcycleWriter, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. Flipflop

    Flipflop Long timer

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    Also check to see if your manual gives a clutch throw distance... A measurement with a dial indicator, generally diagnosis whether or not you've got a problem on the linkage end... or a problem inside the basket. Not enough throw is the same as clutch drag.

    Will it slip into neutral just before coming to a stop, if you pre-load the shift lever with a toe's weight of pressure? Sometimes just feathering the clutch enough to break the power while creeping forward is enough to find neutral.

    Other than sometimes finds salvation is to rev the engine slightly 300-400 rpm over idle with the clutch pulled in to the grip, then put the same light pressure on the shifter as the revs fall and see if it snicks into neutral. When the engine is off there isn't any drag on the faces of the dogs from rotational force, so falling rpms can sometimes loosen enough if you find the transition back down to idle speed about the same time you hit the lever.

    A blend of the two, is rolling the bike a 1/4 wheel turn backward while letting the revs fall and snicking the gear lever up with preload before pulling the clutch. The mainshafts are stopped, while the clutch is spinning, but if you've got drag on the clutch the primary gear in the trans has pressure loaded on it, rotating the rear wheel can sometimes find the happy place.

    Sometimes running shell Rotella T oil makes things a bit easier to find. I've had a few bikes that would shear down oil until they were hard to shift/neutral. Thinner weight than spec or thicker weight than spec... Heavy truck engine oil and gear box oil sometimes makes a big difference in how easy things find neutral, particularly if there is a difference between hot and cold.
    #21
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  2. MotorcycleWriter

    MotorcycleWriter Vis ad locum

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    Would I have a variable clutch throw distance with a hydraulic clutch? It's adjustable at the lever but doesn't have the cable adjustment that I am interpreting this comment to be referring to.
    #22
  3. MotorcycleWriter

    MotorcycleWriter Vis ad locum

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    I hate to admit it but I've never changed the fluid on this bike. It's a mineral oil clutch. Does it matter what kind of mineral oil? I suspect it'll ask me to buy something from Italy. Can I substitute olive oil?
    #23
  4. broncobowsher

    broncobowsher Long timer

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    Wet clutches are affected by the oil. Changing perfectly good brand new oil for a different brand new perfectly good oil of a slightly different weight, different manufacturer, or even a different line of oil by the same manufacturer can change how the clutch behaves. Being a wet clutch, there will be drag even when released.
    #24
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  5. Johann

    Johann Commuterous Tankslapperous

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    If you are already chasing down one fault with the clutch I would personally just go with whatever is recommended in the manual to avoid adding any other variables into the mix at the moment. Replace like for like. There may be a recommended viscosity on the m/c cap? Once you have come to a conclusion about the clutch drag then I´m sure fork oil (5w?) would be a cheap alternative that would work fine. I think just about anything that isn´t brake fluid would work including ATF.
    #25
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  6. MotorcycleWriter

    MotorcycleWriter Vis ad locum

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    This bike doesn't require much oil. Two quarts I think.

    Agree with mixing solutions. Definitely better to change one variable at a time.
    #26
  7. Yinzer Moto

    Yinzer Moto Long timer Supporter

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    If it is the Magura clutch, use what they call “Magura Blood”. Any bicycle shop or KTM dealer should have it. It is not expensive and has the correct viscosity. Using drug store mineral oil will work in a pinch but the viscosity is different.
    #27
  8. Yinzer Moto

    Yinzer Moto Long timer Supporter

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    F28FEA0F-CE75-40C9-93DF-57C94A60908F.jpeg
    #28
  9. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer Supporter

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    Listen to the people saying they all do that about Husky and KTM. If you have noticed a change, there is certainly nothing wrong with changing the hydro clutch fluid and bleeding the clutch. It might improve things. But I wouldn't chase oil types or clutch issues or anything else.

    Because, beyond any actual hydro clutch issues like air or a bad master or slave cylinder, odds are that you will chase this "problem" forever on a Husky and never find a "solution". Because there probably isn't one. Seriously, they all do that. At least all three of my KTM's have.
    #29
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  10. MotorcycleWriter

    MotorcycleWriter Vis ad locum

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    a) It didn't used to do it so something changed. Find what changed and change it back.
    b) This bike was made by M.V. Augusta in Italy and has absolutely no connection to KTM. Personally, I think the Italian Husky's are better.
    #30
  11. MotorcycleWriter

    MotorcycleWriter Vis ad locum

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    I'm guessing you bleed the clutch the same way you bleed the brakes:
    Suck out the oil that's in the master cylinder.
    Fill it up with fresh.
    Connect hose to bleed screw.
    Loosen screw - pull clutch lever, look for bubbles in waste line.
    Tighten screw - release clutch lever.
    Loosen screw - pull clutch lever, look for bubbles in waste line.
    Tighten screw - release clutch lever.
    Loosen screw - pull clutch lever.
    Tighten screw - release clutch lever, look for bubbles...
    #31
  12. Yinzer Moto

    Yinzer Moto Long timer Supporter

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    I pretty much except I prefer to use a vacuum bleeder instead of pumping the lever.

    https://www.harborfreight.com/Brake-Bleeder-and-Vacuum-Pump-Kit-63391.html
    #32
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  13. Flipflop

    Flipflop Long timer

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    Anything is possible if the clutch push rod has worn.


    A lazy way.... is to take a zip tie and hold the lever back to the grip overnight with the bars turned so the port in the housing is highest and check it in the morning.
    #33
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  14. Motomantra

    Motomantra Registered Lurker

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    When doing a service/fluid change, I prefer using the vacula. It hasn't been a problem. But if there's any air in the lines I'll start with vac, but move onto the old method of pumping the m/cyl.
    #34
  15. MJS

    MJS Long timer

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    I've found that using a syringe to push fluid up to the MC tends to push any air bubbles up and out.
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  16. Zuber

    Zuber Zoob Supporter

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    Yup, this. You can't bleed this system like brakes, from the top down, because either the fluid is thinner or the lines are larger. The air bubbles won't travel down. Empty the master and inject new fluid at the bottom with a syringe. Very quick.

    Or, ignore it. Since it's Italian, you'll have something much more important to worry about very soon.
    #36
  17. Dtx915

    Dtx915 Been here awhile

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    Switch to pro-x clutch steel clutch plates. What happens to the stock ones is they warp just a little. If you take the basket apart and inspect the plates you will see high spots on them.
    I learned that when I was racing. Dead engine starts in gear became a problem. Once I swapped out the plates neutral and starting in gear wasn't a problem. Most KTM and huskys do this over time.
    #37
  18. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus Supporter

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    #38