Wondering about the stator problem

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by OFOAM, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Power.... Current.... wattage.... Many people use all three terms as a common denominator. The article quoted use technical specificity " Dumping Current, not power"
    That is somewhat strange as we all know that current is measured in amps, and power is watts which is volts x amps, so in that equation it still ties a drain to the frame. It in fact does such with a variable ( volts)
    Bottom line as the article states amps goes to ground, in part through the stator and some through the RR, they both heats up. This is the excess current, which at a certain volts driven or regulated carries a certain amount of power ( watts) is shunted to the frame.
    The article states nothing we did not already know.
    The excess current ( amps @ a certain voltage, and so in reality power ( watts)) is shunted to the frame. This being the case the stator is always running at 100%. The floating part is how much goes in the way of system, extras, and frame. It is a very efficient, basic and predictable system. The only drawback is that it always produces 400 watts, which carries an amount of latent heat that needs to be dissipated.
    I believe our 800 is loosing that battle because of lag of oil cooling ( fixed at later models) and headers adding latent heat from the headers.
    #21
  2. bmwroadsterca

    bmwroadsterca RadioFlyer

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    "we all know that current is measured in amps, and power is watts which is volts x amps"
    With respect this is where you make your error. The same error leads you to the erroneous conclusion that "it always produces 400 watts".

    Power is the product of volts times amps ONLY IN THE SIMPLE WORLD WHERE THE LOAD IS ENTIRELY RESISTIVE AND THE ALTERNATING VOLTAGE AND THE ALTERNATING CURRENT ARE IN PHASE (see my earlier post #6 with a link explaining Power Factor). Unfortunately the alternator's world consists of resistance and inductance. There will always be a phase difference between the current and voltage due to the presence of the inductance created by the alternator's own coils. The difference will be greatest when the regulator shunts (resistance goes very low) and the circuit inductance becomes the dominant component of the impedance limiting the current.

    It is simply false to think that the alternator is always putting out 400W and that the difference between 400W and what the bike + accessories consume is being dissipated as heat.
    #22
  3. OFOAM

    OFOAM Been here awhile

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    So, to my original question: is the R/R a shunt or series type.
    #23
  4. RBMann

    RBMann Been here awhile

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    SHUNT.
    #24
  5. ADVwxyz

    ADVwxyz yep

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  6. dpike

    dpike BeeKeeper Supporter

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  7. ADVwxyz

    ADVwxyz yep

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  8. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    I simply dissagre and stand by my earlier stated assessment.
    #28
  9. ADVwxyz

    ADVwxyz yep

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    Albiet being NASCAR, cars... what ev...

    What are the remarks on this angle:

    http://www.centuryperformance.com/exhaust-header-heat-wraps-do-not-use.html

    So, IF THIS has relevance, why not just put a R&G case saver over the alternator... to provide another layer of thermal protection to the case of the engine? (which I have done)???

    rg_racing_clutch_cover_bmwf650_gsf700_gsf800_gs_adventure_zoom.jpg
    #29
  10. Met n GS

    Met n GS Been here awhile

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    wont the extra cover keep engine heat in making it slightly hotter
    #30
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  11. ADVwxyz

    ADVwxyz yep

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    So, yea... look at the pic... whether heat from in, or heat from out... it makes no difference... there is heat.

    So header heat is not the issue IMdumbassO

    (And where is the cylinder explosions??? at the top of the cylinder, at the top of the headers... so... heat there or at the bottom is a moot point... heat conducts and radiates around...) the entire engine is hot... not just the top, not just the headers... it all conducts and radiates around...

    so, in quantum... how is wrapping the headers to deal with radiating heat.... with no R&G, better than, R&G and no wrapped headers, when the engine block is conducting heat?
    #31
  12. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Long timer

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    The heat the engine will get off the headers in negligible compared to the heat its getting from inside the engine.
    #32
  13. ADVwxyz

    ADVwxyz yep

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    Exactly... so there is no point or benefit in wrapping the headers. Or even having the R&G case saver being "used" as a thermal protectant... so...

    Back to the original issue of the stator and the R/R....

    (This is my bike, and why I have case savers...)

    14359271_1333032806730612_5368978391748126222_n (1).jpg
    #33
  14. bmwroadsterca

    bmwroadsterca RadioFlyer

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    Well this stuff is far from intuitive so that's understandable.

    But if you would explain which part you disagree with and why I would be happy to try to explain further. I am sure others are mystified as well.

    We are all here to learn.

    mike
    #34
  15. dpm

    dpm Been here awhile

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    Yup, I'm mystified too. You say the current drops towards zero when the coils are shorted? The voltage may collapse but the internal resistance of the coils means that the current won't. Resistance plus power means heat, regardless of inductive or magnetic considerations, and heat means resistance, so a shorted stator will cook itself happily.
    #35
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  16. Strawdog

    Strawdog Strawdog

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    Over 100000 km on original stator/regulator Another oil thread ? great What would Donald Trump use ?

    #36
  17. bmwroadsterca

    bmwroadsterca RadioFlyer

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    Where does someone say that the current drops to zero when the regulator shunts????
    #37
  18. The Maz

    The Maz Clueless and lost

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    I think he is talking about this....
    But as it says, it dumps power, not current.
    #38
  19. Loutre

    Loutre Cosmopolitan Adv Super Moderator

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    :fpalm:stupid:stfu
    #39
  20. sarathmenon

    sarathmenon Armchair Adventurer

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    I always thought the alternator was rated at it's max performance, which in my understanding would happen at redline. That's when the crankshaft and thus the stator is rotating the most, and power output being a function of the coils wound (plus poles, plus thickness of the copper etc... which mostly govern the voltage). I have taken a few electives in electrical, but that was a long time ago, and I wasn't good at it even back then :lol3

    You seem to know this a lot better than I do. So, ELI5 please?
    #40