Works Electric Hollyburn SS & P5

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by mtntrails, May 3, 2018.

  1. mtntrails

    mtntrails Life is Short...

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    http://www.works-electric.com/hollyburn-ss

    This looks so badass.

    Anybody have one?

    I'm seriously considering the SS. Yeah, it's a lotta dough, but there's nothing like it in the marketplace. Looks really solid.
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  2. flei

    flei cycletherapist

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    40mph on a scooter? This scooter, not a Bergman kind of scooter.... What could possibly go wrong? :yikes
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  3. dogsslober

    dogsslober No neck tie, Ti neck

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    I do not like scooters really but that thing looks bad ass
    lotta dough tho
    ATGATT fast
    #3
  4. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    It's cool but $6300 is a lot of dough for a stand up scooter. :eekers

    [​IMG]
    If you like fast stand ups, might I suggest this as a much less expensive option at $1599 (or reconditioned at $1349)

    https://www.superscootersales.com/product/super-lithium-1500-brushless-electric-scooter/

    Goes 40mph using a brushless motor powered by a high output 60a 48v 20ah LifePo4 lithium pack. Also folds and is only 3lbs heavier than the Hollyburn SS.

    39AD9745-E579-4945-A3E4-1E5DC37F8A2D.jpeg

    ^ I have the 800w 36v SLA version that goes 21mph on a fresh charge. Rode it to work and back home (5.8 miles each way) for over a year and rolled it underneath my desk to recharge. I almost bought the 1500w version a few years ago but got an eGrom instead for about the same amount of money.
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  5. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    I get it, I would love to organize a parking lot road race with scooters like this. Anyone who didn't win would probably be laughing so hard they wouldn't care.

    The problem is that there's likely no freakin' way you'll ever get a plate on it, so it's either ride it off road or you're an outlaw.

    Now take that concept and scale it down a bit regarding performance envelope. Make it foldable and lightweight, and give it the same performance limits as e-bikes, 20 mph max and 750 W. Give it a range of around 20 miles. And amend the federal law that defines e-bikes to include these stand-up scooters.

    Now you have something that could quite literally transform urban transport.

    I already have a concept that includes all of the above. And when folded it will fit in regulation airline overhead storage. This could deliver on all the crazy promises (and more) that the Segway made but couldn't fulfill, at around 1/4 the price.
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  6. mtntrails

    mtntrails Life is Short...

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    YES! Like a motorcycle Gymkhana competition. Perfect! IN

    Despite the bigger power and heftier build, I think that most jurisdictions would see this the same as an EcoReco or Ninebot standing scooter - same road rules as a small moped(?). Unless you are riding like a total a-hole, I don't think a LEO would be looking for the engine specs. On the other hand, the cities that have Bird Rentals (Ninebot Standing Scooters in Santa Monica & DC) are having lots of trouble with riders not following the rules and leaving scooters laying all over pedestrian areas. I'm sure the hammer is coming down on them soon.

    Portable & travel-able? - how about one of these... https://onewheel.com/pages/onewheel-xr
    ...they are certified safe for airline cargo holds
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  7. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    Certainly fun. Did you see the video? Most of what they were doing in public spaces would (or at least should) have gotten their asses busted.

    To sell this as a viable form of urban transport my thought was to add another ride mode to the controls. For my concept to be accepted, the law that expands the definition of "bicycle" (used because this new type of vehicle can be easily piggy-backed onto that law since the performance envelopes are so similar) would stipulate that any personal electric vehicle (PEV) operated in an urban environment where a concentration of pedestrians may be expected (sidewalk, town square, plaza, mall corridor, not any roadway) would operate only in 'ped mode' (or some other term TBD) where the top speed is limited to 5 mph (a fast walking pace). There is also a low sound emitted in ped mode to warn pedestrians of your presence. In open areas like parks or multi-use paths (MUPs), ped mode would only be necessary within 20 feet or so of a pedestrian.

    Sounds like a buzz-kill, but it's the only way to allow PEVs and pedestrians to share space on a large scale and limit any potential carnage. The need for ped mode in urban or congested areas (business districts, shopping malls, etc.) even when no pedestrians are visible is that grandma could step out of a store just as Carl Commuter zips by at 20 mph (e-bike and PEV maximum speed) on an otherwise empty sidewalk and picks her off. So Carl needs to be in ped mode. Once he drops of the curb and enters the road he can switch modes and wick it up to his full 20 mph.

    Note that the part requiring PEVs to slow within 20' of a pedestrian should also be applied to bicycles on MUPs. That would be very welcome to people who've been out for a nice morning stroll and had some Spandex hero blow past their elbow at 30 mph.
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  8. EvrythingAwesom

    EvrythingAwesom Long timer

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    Been in 'parking lot' races with Currie and Badsey's many years ago. Lotta' fun, prolly extends one's lifespan. Kept me away from COPD-inducing roads. The Currie Flyer SE was by far the most-fun surf'n-feely scooter. Nooobody wanted to return it after a test ride at the tennis club.
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  9. EvrythingAwesom

    EvrythingAwesom Long timer

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    Our group has taken lots of PEV's like these apart, fixed, modded, raced, so here's my two cents "paper-review" based on their website:

    http://www.works-electric.com/hollyburn-ss

    - Deck length is too short. Prolly unfcomfortable riding position, or may be jarring riding thru expansion joints in sidewalk.

    - Curb weight is way too heavy for PEV use.

    - Plastic sprockets, I think. Without an enclosure, this will not last long with debris going in when wet. (i.e. teeth will become sharp in 20 kms, then cut the drive belt.)

    - Air trac tires on this scooter. Really pricey!! For PEV's airless is best, imo. Tubeless is second-best.

    http://www.aircraftsupply.com/specialty-air-trac-aircraft-tires.html


    - Not a hub motor!! Hello?? Please look at the rental PEV's in Cali .. do you see any belt driven scooters?

    - 4400 watts ... oh, size (in watts) matters? Our PEV's were already too fast with 450 watts and inefficient chain drives.

    - Will this company be around to service their scooters? Among the crowdfunded ones, I think 9 out 10 (or so) didn't hang around.

    - No BMS info?? This is the most-crucial aspect of a Lithium 'cycle.

    - I really doubt this spec works: (I own two e-scooters with ABS)
    I don't see any ABS mechanism.
    Rear Brake: Regenerative Interlock, ABS

    - Lack of shock-absorbers. It's needed for the speed and short-wheelbase, imo. Given the $7000 OTD price, it should have gold-plated shock absorbers. It shocks me that it has no shocks!

    - Massive 14" tires??? I got two scooters with 12" .. no big deal.

    - Fat-tire profile will not be fun, like the Currie Flyer SE. This will ride more like a Badsey, just guessing.
    #9
  10. EvrythingAwesom

    EvrythingAwesom Long timer

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    The "heaftier build" is a "big negative" in my experience.

    This scooter has a para-military look to it. That is not well received usually in my experience, when looking for friendly electric-outlet owners.
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  11. EvrythingAwesom

    EvrythingAwesom Long timer

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    Owned more than 10 PEV's.

    At greater than a certain speed (depending on many variables, including rider weight), the road vibration becomes unbearable and unsafe. For this particular configuration, I would guess 20MPH is its practical limit, except for daredevil scooter-ists.
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  12. flei

    flei cycletherapist

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    I think where I live, on one of these, 20mph might just prove to be fatal.
    images.jpeg
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  13. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    Remember the Honda ATC, the little all-terrain trike with big flotation tires, no suspension and more than its share of product liability lawsuits? It had several problems, but a big one was the fact that it had no suspension and big soft squishy tires. The soft tires acted like air springs, so it DID have suspension - but virtually zero damping. So if you hit a series of stutter bumps, or washboard, or a few potholes at just the right speed, the wheelbase and air-springs-in-the-form-of-tires would go into resonance and violently pitch the rider flat on his face. Then the ATC would go airborne itself and land right on top of the rider.

    I've seen this on video (years ago, can't find anything on YouTube now). It's really quite frightening. Riding along at steady speed, encounter a series of low bumps that don't look like much, and suddenly the ATC rocks forward, back, leaps into the air and ejects the rider. And yes, chases him down and clobbers him, landing upside-down on him. This is a fairly simple spring-mass system. Change the air pressure significantly and the whole thing happens at a different speed.

    This is what worries me about big balloonish tires on unsuspended scoots. I have no experience with airless tires (in any of their various forms), but it seems like they all add some damping one way or another. It's not what anyone could call finely tuned, but better than nothing.

    If I was to do a scoot-type PEV I'm very inclined to make it suspended.
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  14. mtntrails

    mtntrails Life is Short...

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    The Hollyburn tires are nothing like the tires on the original ATC90 & 110 three wheelers - not nearly as big or "floaty". I remember those three wheelers very well - several friends with them - lots of carnage.

    That said, there's only a handful of YouTube reviews - none really get in to detail about higher speed (25+ mph) handling enough to form an opinion of road use.

    Works Electric offers demo rides out of their shop in Portland OR. If I were planning a trip there, I would jump all over that opportunity.
    #14
  15. BrianTRice

    BrianTRice Nerdy adventurer

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  16. mtntrails

    mtntrails Life is Short...

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    Here's a couple of YouTube review videos...

    Initial review


    1000 mile review


    I gotta say, this thing still intrigues me. It is truly in a class by itself. The more I learn about it, the more I am able to conceive (and perhaps get past) the $6300 price tag. If I could get past the price tag, the next dilemma would be whether to choose the P5 or SS.
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  17. mtntrails

    mtntrails Life is Short...

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  18. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    Wow indeed. Pretty impressive, and at $1795 who would even consider $6300 for a Hollyburn?

    One thing that might not be apparent to some is that normal scooters are fun and reasonably safe, but as speeds increase (like with hyperscooters like this) it rapidly changes the whole game. These require some special riding techniques and skills. Lots of fore/aft body english is required to prevent wheelies and stoppies. With those tiny wheels, uber-short wheelbase and standing position of the rider, hitting a pothole or other obstruction can give new, instantaneous, surprisingly severe and very literal meaning to the term 'faceplant'. I'm not sure what to expect when you blow a front tire. If anyone has experienced that at speed, please share.

    Riding this at full speed without a motorcycle helmet is just begging for a Darwin award. Same for the Hollyburn. You wouldn't catch me racing either of these without full leathers or in any conditions without a full DOT/Snell helmet. Just sayin'....
    #18