Works Performance

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by Melrone, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. kenny robert

    kenny robert Long timer

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    another intersting bit is the dual rate and its 2 springs
    the 2 springs stacked have a combined rate lower than either spring
    generally and most of the time the short spring is much stiffer .
    contrary to a persons first thoughts is that the stiff short spring coil binds long before the long softer spring
    the solution to the doubt is that the short spring has very little usable travel before it coilbinds aka the crossover event
    at that time the long spring carries on as the only spring component involved in the final rate
    if both springs are 120lb then the initial combined rate is 60
    the dual rate is 60/120
    more common would be a 250 short 120 long
    the initial rate something like 80-90 the dual rate 80/120
    this is where observing the scale pondage per inch allows a person to observe it fully
    2 straight rate springs will yeild 2 straight rate values
    to test and verify an unkownn spring i generally settle it in at 20lbs then travel an inch onto the scale
    the next reading at one inch minus the initial 20 is the springs rate
    it can be easily fully proven by traveling another inch
    it is an eye opener to observe how precise and consistent springs are
    and since the days of 1978 and that fox manual spring technology in mfg and quality control has gained quite a bit
    the springs used more recently are of larger overall diameter but 2 springs of similar travel and rate the late models will be lighter
    they can now more highly stress the wire ,for the huge count of cycles expected and the springs we have now just keep working of course in the early days of the long travelk revolution the old bikes did not have room at the drive chain for a fatter overall spring anyway
    but nowadays where twin shocks are still used or bikes that carried on with them the mfg's got a clue and designed in the shock mounts to facilitate fatter more efficient lighter springs which also needed the type of quality control in metsalurgy that was not so prevelent even just 40 years ago
    a 120 lb spring mowadays is 3/4'-1''' or so fatter tham the vintage fox or koni spring
    this larger diameter allows the smaller wire which is more widely spaced to be used in a spring that is half the weight of its grandpa but both are 120's with of course same amount of spring travel until coilbind,that is the only way they could really be interchsangeable and comparable as in weight
    S#&W the usa shock and spring company which is now progressive were the first aftermarket economy shock to use more finely refined metallurgy higher quality longer lasting smaller wires springs
    but s&w had a weak link,tijuana chrome, on the shock rods,it was the shop next door to the one that did cheech and chong's van
    that is why i defy you to find an old s&w shock that does not have a rod looks like its made of rust and in deap salton sea storage
    #21
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  2. Melrone

    Melrone Long timer

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    This is what my shocks are for. My 03 GSA. I WAS having them rebuilt and lifted back to the stock height.

    Attached Files:

    #22
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  3. kenny robert

    kenny robert Long timer

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    I CAN DIG THAT :bmwrider
    she is like a ship at anchor right there,loaded to the gunwales and ready for anything
    servicing the shocks is not an issue for me
    restoring them to the original length is the important bit
    works as well as many others simply uses a top out spacer in most apps to do this
    that would be evident once the rod/sealhead/piston assembly is out of the shock
    the only guide i have to go by (i printed it out in case it disapears) is the pdf app guide from works which shows the 2 shock lengths for 02- bmw 1150 gs adventure
    shows a std lentgh and a short
    http://www.worksperformance.com/pdf/app_guide/street.pdf
    pretty basic stuff a 1/2'' diff in shock lengths front and rear
    i am going to assume it is a 1/2'' spacer and that makes sense because the fully bottomed out length of short or std shock would still be the same
    whether or not the piston valving is different for short or std length i do not know
    and then there is the springing in theory the shorter travel shock requires a firmer spring
    do you have any insight to the springs used
    my experience and knowledge on springing and setting up springs is strictly related to conventional twin shock geometry,i do know that the basic principle of shorter travel requires firming spring is valid,when all other parameters are conststant
    of course the shorter shock does get into the linkages leverage ratio changing curve later than the longer shock
    but it is not changing the curve only shortening it from the beginning point

    i don't yet have the experience or expertise to do any calculations on springing a more sophisticated geometry with linkage
    :lol3 and my test rigs for springs would need a scale with more bigger numbers to keep that explanation simple :photogwe are talking about springs on your gsa with easily 5x the rate of the springs i normally test
    edit: re i asked you about springing but more to the point did you get the short shock set ? and now going std length?
    or you went std and then went short and now back to std ./
    the internet sucks for these type of issues ,confusion often results from not asking every question which can lead to wrong assumptions
    #23
  4. Melrone

    Melrone Long timer

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    Well I actually talked to Gills wife today and I think my shocks are history. They mailed all the unbuilt shock back to its owners over s month ago. So I'm S.O.L. Now I e got to buy a new set of shocks. So far the average price is $1400 for them that's from Ted Porter.
    #24
  5. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority

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    WHAT THE FUCK???

    That is just so wrong.
    #25
  6. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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  7. kenny robert

    kenny robert Long timer

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    what a total bummer, sorry to hear that
    #27
  8. Melrone

    Melrone Long timer

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    Yeah what do you do. I will be ordering them soon. From where I don't know for sure. But I need them. I'd like to thank Strongbad for his help. I'll let you know what I buy.
    #28
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  9. bigjh1

    bigjh1 n00b

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    Not sure how to PM you but I would like to get Pierre's phone number if I can I have a set of Works Performance shocks that need seals
    #29
  10. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority

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    THE NUMBER I HAD FOR PIERRE IS NO LONGER IN SERVICE! HE ALSO NO LONGER HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH SHOCKS!

    SORRY GUYS, BUT IT APPEARS THAT I CAN'T HELP WITH YOUR WORKS SHOCKS ANY MORE.
    #30
  11. Melrone

    Melrone Long timer

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    Well hell has frozen over. It’s November and I went down to post office and low and behold my shocks were returned to me in the same box I mailed them out in. Now I think I found a guy that can do my rebuild.
    #31
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  12. DirtBikeBob

    DirtBikeBob n00b

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    Kenny, I have two sets of old Works Performance shocks (one piggy back) that I need the valve seals modified. I was going to try and cut the slot wider (wider than the thin blue ring) and make rings out of Delrin, but what you have done looks similar to the modern rings. Please email me so we can discuss. Thanks........Jay
    #32
  13. cwdrifter

    cwdrifter Adventurer

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    Bummer that Gils is gone & Works closed up and the vultures swooped in. Gils had the right set up for my SP600F...he could have built a custom shock for me...with right leverages and all....saw one he did for another SP600 rider...I waited too long. DR650 has completely different linkage.
    #33
  14. Melrone

    Melrone Long timer

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    I’d thought I’d give you guys an update. I just about to mount a new Progressive Shock on my GSA. The front Works shock is down in Arizona actually getting rebuilt. But they couldn’t get a new shaft in time for the rear. Rumor has it that Works is up and running again but in a smaller operation. This new shock was reasonable priced and it’s seems beefy. I’ll let you know what I think later. Cause we leave mid June for Newfoundland.

    Attached Files:

    #34
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  15. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority

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    A buddy of mine has been doing some of the machining for them while they are ramping up.

    I pulled this up of of the Works Performance FB page:

    In need of new shocks or a rebuild on old shocks? Worx Shocks are in business and building / servicing the shocks you once knew as Works Performance. Gil's daughter Starr Stitely is manufacturing the same great shocks you've all come to know and love, and is still located in Canoga Park. Give Starr a call for your shock needs.

    Worx Shocks
    7861 Alabama Ave
    Suite 12
    Canoga Park, CA 91304

    818-701-1010
    #35
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  16. Melrone

    Melrone Long timer

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    Nice to know too late. I’ve already spent the money on the back shock
    #36
  17. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority

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    With the loss of Giles and the aftermath & collapse of the company, I wouldn't blame you from staying far, far away. I've told my friends with connections to Starr that Worx now has a huge negative reputation to overcome.
    #37
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  18. Melrone

    Melrone Long timer

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    Yeah you’re right there. I was told it now will take a couple of months before I see the front shock. So I just ordered another front from Progressive. Let’s see how this will work.
    #38