Worth the price to beef up a 650 twin?

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by DiabloBlanco, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. huckleberry

    huckleberry BACK ROAD BOMBER

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    [​IMG][/IMG]

    hyperprohttp://http://www.hyperprousa.com/catalog.php?cat=Shocks&make=BMW

    or elkahttp://http://www.elkasuspension.com/

    wp makes a shock for the 8 but not the 650 yet i'd want hi and low speed compression damping adj. but thats me if i'm gonna spend a grand or better for a new shock i want everything! ohlins makes a shock too but no high speed comp adj. besides i've heard about a lot of broken ohlins on bmw's and don't think their up to the task, again because of no high speed adj. since the bike has no linkage on the shock its a fine line to get adjusted right, look how many years ktm has worked on the linkageless design to get it right.

    Get the 16 tooth countershaft sproket too drops speed at idle from 10mph to 7 mph makes it easier to pull out and its only a touch buzzier at 75 on the highway, i still average between 55-60 mpg too
    #21
  2. Terrytori

    Terrytori Namaste

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  3. DiabloBlanco

    DiabloBlanco Intl' Hops Inspector

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    Yup, that's the graph I saw, definitely don't spend too much time above the high 6's in rpms so I don't see the power difference being that big of a thing between the two bikes, and couldn't that be attributed to the way its geared?

    I agree Terry, but the idea isn't exactly to replicate, but more or less just improve the 650's off road ability without drastically taking away it's superb road manners for less than the cost of upgrading to an 800. Swapping my not-so-gently used 650 for an 800 would probably have an end cost of 4-5 grand, so if I can improve it significantly for even half that I'm doing alright.

    I did look on Ohlin's site and found the BM 802 rear shocks. I think they're 824 dollars and then there is a group buy of Ohlin going on here at ADVrider that gives 24% off the price. Now I could be wrong, but I am assuming that what fits the 8 fits the 650 as far as rear shocks? But you would suggest holding off until other products come on the market? My next trip should be to Alaska this summer, but I don't see the bike NEEDING upgraded rear suspension by then, but in a year and a half-ish I *might* be going across Russia and would definitely want it beefed up for that trip, so my timeline is fairly open.
    #23
  4. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

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    If I was in your predicament, I would be tempted to upgrade also, but I would not be looking at F800gs parts to do it. First of all, the 800 forks and rear shock are not that good. Secondly, you are going to have fitment issues if you try to marry them to your F650gs. A fork transplant is going to require using the Triple trees off the F800gs because they are an upside down fork. You are probably going to find your exististing wheel won't fit and being a single disc, lead to problems with your brake master cylinder and the left fork will have an uneeded caliper mount. So an F800 wheel probably will be needed. All very expensive new and unavailable used on a new bike.
    I would be looking for a used fork off another model BMW, like the 450 or possibly a Husquavarna, to fit F800gs triple tree. The other option, is looking for 43mm forks, which would enlarge the donor base to include KTM's and many others, but you will have to do your own search on that. Even buying a matching front wheel will end up being cheaper than an F800gs. Once you have the front end heigth determined you can work on the rear. From the repair manual, it looks like the F800gs shock is a bolt on, so may be a candidate and there should not be an issue buying used.
    Once you decide the length of the rear to level the bike with your front a little searching through some of the aftermarket options should find you a likely candidate.
    #24
  5. huckleberry

    huckleberry BACK ROAD BOMBER

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    nope the 8 shock has 10mm longer shaft travel which equals about 1.5" more rear whell travel. you have to get a shock for the 658 or change the forks too! You would need at least 1.5" travel more in the front if you use a 8 shock.Thats why it would cost about $3500.00 to do a whole swap about $2000.00 to emig for triple trees and a new fork and about $1000.00 for a new shock. But i think if you buy the ricors and a new shock for the 658(1 with adjustable HIGH SPEED COMPRESSION DAMPING) you'll be very happy with the end result. the hyperpro was used by docking pilot on here on his 8 and he has a few miles on it and likes it alot.
    #25
  6. SS in Vzla.

    SS in Vzla. Totally Normal? I'm not!

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    I'd test ride an F800...
    Maybe after the test ride you will say: "I NEED one"....
    or maybe you will say: "nahh, the difference is not worth it for me, I'll just upgrade my 650 Twin's suspension and front wheel".
    But in the end you'll have a clear picture in your head of what YOU want to do.

    But, you talk about maintaing the road manners of the 650 Twin.... if you increase height via a different suspension and a 21" front wheel, the bike WILL change it's handling both on-road and off.
    #26
  7. Lobby

    Lobby Viel Spass, Vato!

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    Sure looks like the only difference in HP between the bikes is above 7000 rpm.

    Do you think you'd use that rev range much? I don't...
    #27
  8. DiabloBlanco

    DiabloBlanco Intl' Hops Inspector

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    Yeah Silviu, I know, but even if I did NEED one, I'd have trouble finding the 5 grand to upgrade. That trip I took to come visit you and taking 5 months off of work left me a little drained, but definitely worth it :freaky

    And regarding above 7,000, that's my point exactly, even when you are at or above 7,000, it's usually only for a few seconds, so I don't think the common phrase "detuned" is applicable in any way.

    Those WR forks are getting my attention, thanks for bringing them up. First thing first I'll probably try that intimator, better to spend a couple hundred and see if that does what I'm looking for than to spend a grand. But that WR is now high on my list if I do decide to do a full replace
    #28
  9. DiabloBlanco

    DiabloBlanco Intl' Hops Inspector

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    Ok so it's been a few days. I was just tooling around on the Wunderlich site and came across these...

    Here are the ones labeled for the 650, 1,199 for hydraulic and 899 for "regular"
    http://www.wunderlichamerica.com/mm...ct_Code=5180003-04&Category_Code=F650GSTWIN-U

    Now reading the information it seems they cost more than the 800's because "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1] It has been determined that the front springs need to be upgraded in order to ensure good handling and make the most of the improved shock." So they come with new [/SIZE][/FONT]springs for the front.. so this could be a "total" fix for me, yeah?

    And these are labeled for the 800, 999 for hydraulic and 699 for "regular"
    http://www.wunderlichamerica.com/mm...roduct_Code=5180001-02&Category_Code=F800GS-X

    So what says you amigos? Anyone heard good things or had good experiences with these or Wilbers in general? Worth the dough?
    Probably a question better suited for the manufacturer, but think I could get that extra inch of clearance through this too?

    Furthermore, Huck, Gio, if I got this, would you still recommend the Intinimators?

    Thanks guys
    #29
  10. huckleberry

    huckleberry BACK ROAD BOMBER

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    well if you only want rebound adj. like you have now, and if its actually for the twin not the single, cause that looks like a 650 single shock, why not? still think you should go to the hardware store and buy a 1 foot piece of 1.25" pvc pipe and cut it to 1/2" (2 pcs) install in forks and adj rear preload to give the same sag, ride bike and see what you think would cost all of $2.00 and help you understand whats going on.I personally would lean to the hyper proshock because of the high and low speed compression adjusters, really you should read up on what these adjusters do to understand how the suspension works which i think will help you make up your mind as to what you want!
    #30
  11. DiabloBlanco

    DiabloBlanco Intl' Hops Inspector

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    Yeah it's definitely for the 650 twin, I'll try to do some more research, get a little suspension smarter. Thanks
    #31
  12. huckleberry

    huckleberry BACK ROAD BOMBER

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    the only reason i say it looks like the 650 single shock and that you should check is cause i ordered a wp shock from wp america and it looked just like that 1 and it turned out to be for the 650 single the twin shock has an eye on the bottom like on top [​IMG][/IMG]
    #32
  13. markymcd

    markymcd Been here awhile

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    Just responded to your PM...

    One thing I forgot to mention was to get the Intiminator from Ricor for the front. Try the Discount Code advrider. might still be activated. It was a 50% discount.

    I put them in myself. Not too hard if you've got the basic tools and it makes quite a good difference.

    Overall, I say yes, it is worth beefing the bike up. It's kind of a hobby over time and as you ride you'll figure out what you want to change. It will never be a dual sport bike just like the 800gs will never be a dual sport bike. It's an ADVENTURE bike and with a little tweaking a damn good one.
    #33
  14. huckleberry

    huckleberry BACK ROAD BOMBER

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    really far too many people sell the 658 short 7" of very good suspension travel is better than 8.5-9"" of shitty travel plus you get into the bike feeling heavy as it gets taller, the big thing in my mind again is a bike that fits and does what you want it to do, i don'k care if it has snorkels down the sides or not what i want is handeling and good suspension and power that works where i want it the 658 can do this but it takes a few bucks just like on the 8
    #34
  15. DiabloBlanco

    DiabloBlanco Intl' Hops Inspector

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    Good tip Mark! :clap the code wasn't for 50% off, but 30%, still, it's a $90 savings :D

    I agree the two rear springs do look similar, but the Wunderlich site for that Wilber is full of saying "650 twin", yada yada, and essentially because the front forks are so weak on the 650 compared to the 800 it costs more to buy this (650/800) shock because we throw in new front fork springs too.

    I couldn't agree more, this bike does get sold short, the numerical distance in inches that it travels isn't what's most important, I just want it to handle the bumps better (i.e. not bottom out) and gain maybe an inch in additional clearance. And true, I'm not looking to make this a dirt bike/crazy dual sport, I'm not a huge off roader, but I do think of myself as an adventurer and sometimes that takes you off the paved path which I don't think they the factory 650 is all that ready for. During the trip there were some really sketchy long stretches of absolute shit road that just had me nervous on her. But the more I read the more I agree, it probably was that damn charcoal canister that had me stalling through and for miles after the big river crossing I did, but a few other people reported it dying out in rain, so I guess I'm lucky it took being submerged on mine and torrential rain hasn't ever done it.

    But really you guys have been amazing with your advice with a guy (me) who loves to ride but has never had any instruction on the mechanical workings of suspension systems and whatnot. Kudos
    #35
  16. markymcd

    markymcd Been here awhile

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    ya. it's a great bike and all the folks that say it's not able to do 'this or that' are mostly full of crap. I'll bet 95% of the riders on the 650twin or 800 ever come remotely close to pushing it's limits. It's a case of ego bigger than balls.

    But it's all fun and good. I find making improvements to be more of an issue of making the bike unique to yourself and your riding style. These bikes are awesome for that. So many options.

    My next step is to get the rear spring from 'Sasquatch' then get my ass down to Idaho in the summer and have him valve it.

    Ride on!
    Mark
    #36
  17. DiabloBlanco

    DiabloBlanco Intl' Hops Inspector

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    Definitely let me know how that goes for you when it happens. As I said in here before, I don't "need" to do my rear anytime soon since besides a semi-simple trip to Alaska this summer I won't have a major adventure for probably two years so I can hold off on doing the back for a while.

    Does anyone know, once a thread has been created, can the name be changed? Maybe I make a change to this one's title and it can become a more general thread for 650 twinners to look for info on upgrading the suspension. If not whatev.
    #37
  18. The Griz

    The Griz Long timer Supporter

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    +1 In my opinion there is so much that is different between these two bikes that you'd spend far more to get the F650GS2 to behave like an F800GS than you'd spend on just trading it up to the F8, regardless of what the F650GS2 owners say. I've ridden both and own an F8. A countersprocket change won't cut it! Some of the more pain in the ass upgrades you'd have to do to the F650GS2 would be somehow upgrading to the 21" front wheel and somehow getting USD forks on. Yes, the F800GS USD forks are not the greatest in the world, but they are definitely better than F650GS2's telescopic forks. And all the upgrades you'd do to the F650GS2 won't raise the resale value one bit! Regarding suspension upgrades, as of now there are many suspension manufacturers that make aftermarket rear shocks and fork springs for the F800GS and the F650GS2. They include WP (yes, WP, there's proof all over), Ohlins, Hyperpro, Wilbers, Bitubo, and Elka to name just a few.
    #38
  19. markymcd

    markymcd Been here awhile

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    I agree Griz. I'd say get the one that's closest to where you want it to be and modify it from there. Don't try to make one be the other cuz it won't be worth it.
    #39
  20. huckleberry

    huckleberry BACK ROAD BOMBER

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    wp does not yet make a shock for the 650 twin! ya know griz if you would slow your fingers down to the speed of your brain you might come off a little smarter:lol3 and the 8 is not that much different. if i bought wp 48mm forks and a wp shock both set up with the same travel as the 8 add a spoked 21 and 18 wheels and put a 16 counter sprocket on it how much difference is there? a couple hp at 7,000 rpm? you 8 guys have to buy new rims cause they bend like butter, the fork is a piece of crap along with the shock so you guys have to change this stuff too. and we get ours for 2 grand less to start! you can stick your 8 is better attitude where the sun don't shine!
    #40