Xr600 & xr650l aussie owners

Discussion in 'Australia' started by Kenno, May 30, 2013.

  1. OzAnt

    OzAnt Still searching

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    305
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    Sandgroper Central, WA, Australia
    New Knee or New Bike, Hmmm it is an XR after all, maybe a new ____!
  2. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

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    Wash your mouth.

    I've an got electric foot on my other four strokes, with kick-start backup (which does get used). It's just that Honda never put it on an XR 'cos of the weight.

    I'm happy to kick-start it, especially when it is in tune, but my stuffed old knee complains in the cold when I ask a bit much of it.
  3. OzAnt

    OzAnt Still searching

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    Sandgroper Central, WA, Australia
    AHHH, you need a knee warmer, but were to plug it into on the XR, need a one of those lithium power packs to power it.
    Its a bugger we have to keep piling on the years, the ambition is good but the execution cant quite keep up.
    Just another challenge in life.
    HPBRP likes this.
  4. lookfar

    lookfar from the land of OZ Supporter

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    Another jigsaw puzzle on the workbench, 1986 XL600RMG heart.
    Needs a new countershaft (will use an XR600 one, 'tis the same, but will have the smaller sprocket splines) and a new fifth gear.
    IMG_1759.jpg
  5. XRHondafan

    XRHondafan Long timer

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    I paid $715 for a brand new ex factory rmg crankshaft when converting my XR600 to electric start
  6. lookfar

    lookfar from the land of OZ Supporter

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    Got any pics of the bike?
  7. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

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    Still limping.....:kurt.......need new knee.......or assistant.:D
  8. greyrider1

    greyrider1 old tinkerer Supporter

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    Finally got around to compiling a little video showing my xrl oil pressure mod, its not the best quality but you can still see what's happening.

    zipweee, cobrin and Ron50 like this.
  9. Kenno

    Kenno Long timer

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    Thanks greyrider1, I've put your video post link on page 1, Champion.

    I just fried a cam and rockers, right after Ant had mentioned cam chain guides mine started shredding and blocked the frame strainer, symptoms were frame oil stayed cold for way too long while head oil temp seemed a touch warmer than normal and later that day I started thinking about checking valve clearances..., I was on a long ride so had to dump my oil into a bottle, remove and clean the strainer (which had its mesh cheeks sucked in from suction) and strain the plastic out of my oil to re-use it and get home.
    It was only 700k into new oil and filter cleans when it happened, the post pump filter was pretty clean too with only minor particles that got through before the suction dam went up.
    I've had close calls on my 600's with it too but never lost a cam probably because no long distance highway speeds were involved and they got cleaned every 500k or so.
    When I rode this bike across the country and back the frame strainer barely ever had anything on it.
    This engine has around 70000k on it now and they are the original chain guides.

    Cheers
    greyrider1 likes this.
  10. greyrider1

    greyrider1 old tinkerer Supporter

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    Cheers Kenno

    Shame about your top end, not much you can do when it happens. I'm not surprised the frame strainer mesh collapsed, that pump can suck harder than the condenser vacuum pumps on the turbines at work lol.

    I've got my cases split for 2nd&5th gear change and counterchaft for the kickstarter, but when it's all back together I'll be looking to install a little pressure switch (combined with an orifice) similar to the pic below. That's on a nx650 I found in the german dominator forum. The've been trying for years to rig something up to check oil pressure, but unfortunately at high oil temps when it's most critical, there's nothing to measure.

    Öldruck (2).jpg
    zipweee likes this.
  11. Kenno

    Kenno Long timer

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    I was surprised that so much plastic got around the engine sump suction strainer and into the frame at all, there must be a gap between the aluminium casing slots and strainer plate that I've never noticed before, normally any large shit in that bottom strainer just drops off when the engine stops and you can get it out with an oil dump and diesel/kero flush and some air agitation, I will look into it a bit further to somehow seal it a bit better otherwise all sorts of nasty things go through the pump and might explain the scoring I've always seen on the lift pump side plates in all of my XR's.

    Your suction gauge in the mod video was fairly consistent, maybe a MAP sensor off an intake manifold might be ok as a pseudo flow indicator when fitted to the same place, they use 5vdc in and the resistance increases with suction and drops voltage down from 5v at sea level to around 1.6v at idle at around 10Hg from memory, cheap as chips and easy to fit an alarm/idiot light for extremely high suction and zero suction.
    zipweee and greyrider1 like this.
  12. greyrider1

    greyrider1 old tinkerer Supporter

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    That's an excellent idea Idea Kenno. Once the oil gets reasonable hot there shouldn't be 'high' suction pressure unless there is something wrong with the strainer. It's easy enough to tap into the line too. Keep in mind I've already upsized the suction line to 8mm ID and drilled out the strainer, so the suction pressure on my bike would be lower than the stock setup.

    I was only looking at the gaps in the sump suction strainer the other day, so what I did was I elongated the bolt hole and on installation before tightening the bolt, I stuck a screw driver under to lever it up a bit, I also put a slight bend in it so it seals better on the other side.
    Kenno likes this.
  13. Kenno

    Kenno Long timer

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    That's a good idea on preloading that suction strainer, I'll whip the sidecover off and do it right now, I had visions of an extra (with cutout) shim plate inserted in the same gap but I like your idea more.

    I reckon a stock frame strainer and your modded one would end up at the same suction value in the event of a screen blockage, I use racing 10 oil in this engine too so it doesn't really thin out when hot like mineral oil but it does tend to hold flotsam and jetsam in suspension as it turns out.

    I'm pretty sure it was that jammed oil pump check valve piston that set off this chain of events with cam guide shredding, strainer blockage, cam and rocker destruction etc but that sump strainer should have held most of it back, there is a lot of windage in there to flush the strainer too but up in the frame it all just hangs there statically on the strainer.
  14. greyrider1

    greyrider1 old tinkerer Supporter

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    There's still some small gaps. I was more concerned about air getting sucked in and leaving too much oil in the sump, but now you got me thinking again.
    Sump strainer.jpg

    1/2" suction should get rid of the oil pick up problem, but yes if the strainer blocks it won't make a difference.
    Frame strainer half inch tube.jpg
  15. greyrider1

    greyrider1 old tinkerer Supporter

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    Just for interest while I got it all apart.
    Stock piston 31.2cc, deck clearance 2.64mm, so the dish in the piston would be 10.5cc.

    xrl stock piston cc'ing.jpg
  16. Kenno

    Kenno Long timer

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    Good photo of the strainer, I tried it on both engines I have at hand and they were both different, my main bike doesn't have the gaps that big but my spare engine does from 4 years later. What I did notice was that the inner end of the strainer was fretted from vibration on top and you can clearly see where it sits in the (marginal) half pocket at the inner thin end so I slightly bent it up from about 10mm back so that when I pushed it in I could just feel a slight click as it popped into place, too much and it won't push in by hand, to little and shit will continue to get past it, even a new strainer is likely to let crap past as I'm sure every XR owner on the planet has noticed at the frame strainer at some point.
    I will close the flange gaps eventually because of the propensity for particles to take the path of least resistance and my evidential frame strainer blockage, wish I'd seen your photo before I put it back together but I've got this thing about being able to walk into the shed and hit the starter at a moments notice lol, there is always next week and my engine is clean for now and should stay that way for years regardless.

    Your idea about air getting sucked in means a lot of uncooled oil sitting in the sump doesn't it, roughly 10mm deep across the engine so around 600ml which is a fair bit of thermal mass at 100c compared to the small amount of cooler oil coming back in.

    I'm not paranoid about it but these are bloody useful finds for the betterment of XRism thanks greyrider1 and would most likely have prevented my cam failure.

    Cheers
    greyrider1 likes this.
  17. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

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    I've never had the frame strainer out of mine:shog, next service it might be prudent for me to check it.
    Kenno likes this.
  18. Ron50

    Ron50 Long timer

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    +1
  19. GSXR

    GSXR Trail Rider

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    Sunshine Coast, Australia
    Doing a new top end for a bloke at the moment. Screen checked - check.

    Normally check 'em whenever a newly purchased bike comes in for sorting, then every 20,000km approx.
    Ron50 and Kenno like this.
  20. Kenno

    Kenno Long timer

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    On my 600's it was always little bits of gasket paper or that black Teflon coating from the head gasket and valve cover that aren't clamped in the joint which would have wiggled through greyriders gaps no problem at all.