XR650R electricity

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by themansfield, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. RyanE

    RyanE Diamond on your timepiece

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Oddometer:
    148
    Location:
    The Way Upper Columbia
    All good points, it will be close to the limit but in real practice I am hoping it will be okay.

    Why derate by 40% for single phase? Wouldn't it just be 2/3 the 3 phase value? Not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious. Similarly, why the 40% derate for continuous duty? I wish I could track down a proper Shindengen spec sheet for this model.

    I will need to do some careful evaluation of the mounting location but I think I can fab something up in a location that provides ample air flow. If I'm running at higher rpms/speeds then there will be at least 1 m/s of airflow and this is when I'm most likely to have an overcharge situation.

    I bet my RS in combined DC only form puts out less than 200w. BD and some other companies seem to derate when you combine stator outputs, RS doesn't seem to mention it. In any case, I bought the FH008 units so I will find out!

    If they work, then this is a very cost effective solution for me.
  2. Gildus

    Gildus Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,062
    Location:
    Oregon Territory
    I'm just going by the numbers published by sources like Jack at Roadstercycle. I don't think anyone sells more Shindengen R/Rs than he does.

    He lists the FH020AA at 50 amps peak w triple phase, 30 amps single, a 40% reduction. I've seen others publish similar numbers.

    The same unit is rated 50 amps peak, 30 amps continuous with 3 phase...again, a 40% reduction. This number may be on the conservative (high reduction % side), but probably not by too much. I'd be happy, however, to be wrong about that.

    Good point about the RS stator. I'd be curious to hear their answer to that question. My BD stator is rated 250w with separate outputs, 200w combined.
  3. cragdweller

    cragdweller Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Oddometer:
    108
    I used a Compufire series R/R on my GS1100E superbike and it works great, shutting off one or two legs as needed. It is a bit smaller in size than the SH775, but it would still be pretty tricky fitting it under the seat of my XRR
  4. teledan

    teledan Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    134
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    Gildus likes this.
  5. Davethestick

    Davethestick Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,280
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Great information! Those install instructions are for the RM stator which I have been running for about a year now. Never given me any issues and produces the rated wattage. A good budget option for those not wanting a Ricky Stator or to be Re wound by Baja Designs.
  6. Gildus

    Gildus Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,062
    Location:
    Oregon Territory
  7. RyanE

    RyanE Diamond on your timepiece

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Oddometer:
    148
    Location:
    The Way Upper Columbia
    Finally got my FH008 R/R installed. One of them (I bought 2 used ones) came with the OE aluminum mounting bracket from the CBR600RR it was taken from. I hacked this up and mounted it on the frame just above the front sprocket. Not the nicest fab work I will admit but seems to be solid and mostly out of the way. Yes, that is a SS hose clamp mounting the bracket to the frame.

    Should see plenty of air flow here. I got it wired up and fired the bike. Unfortunately too late to take the bike for a ride but a quick start up in the shop shows a pretty consistent 14.8v throughout the rpm range. I will take it for a spin tomorrow AM if it doesn't snow :fpalm and report back.

    $_1.JPG.jpg
    20190926_223125.jpg
    20190927_224555.jpg
    Gildus likes this.
  8. RyanE

    RyanE Diamond on your timepiece

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Oddometer:
    148
    Location:
    The Way Upper Columbia
    Success!

    I went for a 200km ride today and all is well! Voltage stayed at a steady 14.8 to 14.9vdc under most conditions. With all of my lights on, the grip heaters (it was cold today; 2*C) and my GPS running it dropped to 14.3-14.5vdc.

    The actual temperature of the unit never exceeded slightly warm to the touch, but it was pretty cold out today as well so I will need to wait until next summer to see how hot it really gets.

    Good enough for me! I'm calling this success. And if it dies, I've got another one sitting on the shelf ready to swap in.

    Thanks for the advice!

    20190928_150940.jpg
    hockeyrick likes this.
  9. esteyes

    esteyes Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    Oddometer:
    91
    Location:
    Escondido in SoCal
    greetings all! picked up a new to me BRP since my xr650l broke. doin some charging system upgrades and thought this be the best place to share my info.
    <<copy of first post>>
    Greetings all. I am a long time lurker as I have only been an xr600r, xr650l and xl600r owner - no BRP in the shed. well that's finally changed. was escorting my new german friends from SD to LA to store their bikes for 6mo's while they go to ozzie land. i was on my L w/ fresh rubber and got bogged down in Irvine traffic. just loafing along at 15 or 20 in third when my lane started moving and being a dumb*ss, i whacked the throttle, snapped the chain which then proceded to wedge the C/S to the rear and open a nice window in my case. i suffered for two weeks and as soon as the wife split to AZ w/ her mom, i jumped on amtrak to the central coast and bought a plated XR650R and rode it home. unfortunately someone stuffed a hot cams 2 cam in the motor - now i almost wonder what i gonna do with all them other air cooled hondas i own... i'm a fat old man and this thing rips.

    reason for this post:
    i dunno if anybody is looking for an xrr in socal, just saw this BRP 51d0bbfce9c3395196db1a9e624dbf98@sale.craigslist.org on Santa Barbara CL - $2500. not affiliated in any way, but seems reasonable.

    obligitory useful content:
    i am only to page 775, so i won't be posting much til i am caught up. but two things. 1) anybody else running a high output three phase stator (w/o the ign windings)? i am running (2) 55/60w 6" headlamps (red fox fairing) so that's 110w on lo beam and 230w on high beam and even tho' the bike came w/ a rewound stator, there just wasn't enuff juice available (same issue on my L w/ the JDM baja twin h/l's so it got a 330w stator). So far i have not read any posts on the topic. would some pix and some how-to be useful? 2) i guess i forgot to mention i already torn this thing apart to make it the way i want... so, it came with the noisy, grabby, scary clutch so i ordered the hinson basket, EBC clutch pack, springs, judder spring and seat and updated bushing. which lead to the "how strong is hard anodizing re: clutch plate fingers banging into clutch baskets and beating them up like in my XR600R's." which lead to "i wonder if i can make the hinson basket work in my XR600R motors?" which led to "well that's a lot of $$ for baskets and i dunno if they going to get beat up like the oem ones or not so what can i do to prevent that?" which ended up being how to rescue your old beat up OEM basket. or protect a new one - Hinson or OEM - for ~$30. works on 600r's, 650l's too. have to check XL600r's and i do have an XR500R i can check as well. I will try to get pix up tonite, def no later than tomorrow. much better seen than described

    then guildus posted:
    Saw a post a while back about somebody working on a 3-phase stator. Can't remember if it was here or on the 650R electricity thread.

    Electrex had a kit...not sure if it's made anymore. If I remember right, it put out 280 watts.

    [​IMG]

    then my reply:
    nteresting. and i see still available from electrex for 165 euro - 280w @ 5k rpm. stock thickness and has CDI windings and incl the R/R. that's a pretty fair deal. i thought of them but i guess i just didn't look hard enuf. thanx for throwing that up there. i am gonna post the rest of my electrical musings to the elec thread found here https://advrider.com/f/threads/xr650r-electricity.421789/page-106
    on paper the setup i'm planning on should do ~350w. and it ain't cheap - i use a SH847 R/R from Shindengen - all mosfet design. pricey (i get mine from jack @ roadstercycle - he's about an hour away up by LAX. BD is only 3mi away and they be great people) but when you are having to shunt large amounts of watts all of a sudden, it's really the only way to go. They are $200 from jack... i have been running Ignitech's CDI box set up to run off DC (small SLA battery). the common nicad 1000mAh batt's are not ideal - bad application for that batt type & nasty stuff inside. I build portable power packs for live field recording and love LiFePO4 batt's... just expensive when a $5 sla will do the job. between me & my two XR buddies, there are 5 Ignitech units that have been in service for min a year, 2 for 3 yrs now w/ nary a glitch. and it sure cleaned up the top of my airbox. the CDI is the only thing there besides the new harness. so, if anyone is interested, here is a preliminary list of stators that appear to fit XR650R's: od/id/thickness in mm i don't think anything thicker than 22mm will fit as i tried a 24mm stator and couldn't quite get the side cover back on - i should have a 20mm from transalp 700 here this week so we shall see...

    115/54/14
    XR400 XR650 W/ IGN, XR400 XR650 3PHASE
    115/54/17
    XL600RM TRX400EX W/ IGN,
    115/54/18
    CB1300, CBR900 Fireblade, VT700 Shadow, NTV650, FSJ600, XL/XR600, TRX500 W P/U, CBR900RR/929 - Frame Code SC44, XL600RM, TRX400EX W/ IGN, VLX400 Shadow, VT400C Shadow, VT500C Shadow, VT500E/FT, VLX600 Shadow, VT600C Shadow, XL600V, XL650V Transalp, NX650 Dominator, XRV750 Africa Twin
    115/54/19
    NT650V,
    115/54/20
    Transalp (XL700V), XL500R W/ IGN,
    115/54/22
    XRV750
    115/54/24
    Honda XLV1000, XL1000V Varadero, VF700/750C/F/S, VFR700F, VFR750F G/H (88-89), VF1000F/F2/R, VF1100C V65/SV65.
    115/54/25
    VTR Firestorm, RVT1000
    115/54/28
    VT1100C Shadow, CX500E/650E, GL500/650, NT650GT, NTV650/750C, VT700C/750C/C2, PC800, GL1000 Goldwing 1975>. GL1100Goldwing 1980>. GL1200 Goldwing 1984
    VT800C, VT1100C/C2.
    Gildus likes this.
  10. Gildus

    Gildus Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,062
    Location:
    Oregon Territory
    Esteyes, any updates on your stator project?
  11. BRUSHCREEK

    BRUSHCREEK Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Oddometer:
    61
    Location:
    West Central Illinois
    Can you guys tell me which rewound stator I have? 4AC563D0-0F75-40EA-89AE-D334908A4FC0.jpeg 718AC61F-D71D-4437-BE64-DFD508566383.jpeg
  12. BRUSHCREEK

    BRUSHCREEK Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Oddometer:
    61
    Location:
    West Central Illinois
    There are only 6 wires coming from the stator. The black/red, brown going to the factory harness and the blue/yellow, green/white to the factory harness. The yellow/white, green going to the yellow wires that goes to the dual sport harness (electro sport with the built in circuit board). What I would like to do is use the factory harness and remove the dual sport kit. And replace the current dual sport kit headlights with a Baja designs halogen headlight. I would like to run the headlight without a dimmer switch and have tail/brake light. Is that possible with the factory harness and current stator (brand)? Does it look like that maybe the previous owner may have done his own rewind?
  13. BRUSHCREEK

    BRUSHCREEK Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Oddometer:
    61
    Location:
    West Central Illinois
    Curious if anyone recognizes this stator and may possibly be able to tell me the manufacturer? It looks to me that it is a single phase rewind? If so would it make more sense to go with an all dc system? Any help would be appreciated.
  14. Gildus

    Gildus Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,062
    Location:
    Oregon Territory
    I don't recognize it...looks to me like a homemade job. Definitely not an Electrosport, Baja Designs or Ricky Stator.

    It would make sense to go to an all DC system IMO. There's not much reason to go w AC these days, except for running old-school incandescent headlights.

    Everything else uses DC.
  15. BRUSHCREEK

    BRUSHCREEK Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Oddometer:
    61
    Location:
    West Central Illinois
    Thanks Gildus I respect and appreciate your opinion. That’s what I’m thinking I’ll do. Thanks again
    Gildus likes this.
  16. esteyes

    esteyes Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    Oddometer:
    91
    Location:
    Escondido in SoCal
    sorry gildus - been away from the computer for a few while. i ordered a 19mm thick stator rated for 280w. it fits in the stock location - could prob go to 20mm, maybe 21. routed all wires carefully and added a vent tube. need to add metal to the trigger on the flywheel then i can close it up. reg/rect installed but not yet wired. making my own harness but banned from working on bike until i finish daughter's car (so i have to wait til wifey goes to bed to play on the XRR). playing with clutch arm length to suit magura hyd clutch.

    electrical is a little more complicated than most - using small 12v batt just big enuff to power the ignitech cdi box until motor running. but it can't power lites etc when you turn the key on and still power the cdi. so ign key turns cdi on and also initiates a countdown on a delay relay. delay set for 30sec for now. delay relay controls headlight feed to hi/low relay, powers coil on horn relay, and triggers three additional relays - one does 12v brake, turn, tail light circuits, one does instuments w/ 1 spare prob for driving extra lights if needed.

    i will post pix shortly.

    the one thing i like about AC is the ability to power headlights, even higher wattage ones, w/o having to worry about running heavier gauge wires to deal with the voltage drop in a DC system. additionally, as many bikes run h/l's directly from the hi/lo handlebar switch, and not thru a relay, AC presents an easier load for the switch to pass. thru those small contacts.

    i haven't worked on many XR650R's, but d*mn near every XR600R i have seen needs its ground wire replaced - there is a short piece of 18ga grounded at the coil that meets the front to rear 18ga ground in the main harness. when people start d/sing their bike or running a better h/l, that little wire gets pretty crispy over time as people just tie into the green ground wire... not sure how the BRP does it, but it's something to remember if you have elec issues or are doing annual maintenance etc.
    Gildus likes this.
  17. Ratdotl

    Ratdotl n00b

    Joined:
    May 13, 2019
    Oddometer:
    3
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Hi All, longtime lurker and first time posting. Wealth of information here but also hoping for some insight on my particular issue. Finally have some time being unemployed by the current situation So here goes, thanks in advance for any and all replies. 2000 xr650r with stock stator and Electrex dual sport kit. No lights come on with the key ,only after bike is running. The lights stopped working awhile back so I dove into the ds package behind the headlight, found the small 12v battery and replaced it with the one in the photos, moving it out of the inside area to a spot where I can get to it. That worked for a few months then no lights again but battery is fine , all charged up. Dove into the ds package again and found a fried terminal on the circuit board, as seen in the photos
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/FGtBFym2gm4x2Ssg7
    a few questions: what caused this and how to fix it. I assume the terminal block can be replaced, but is the black box to the right(rect/reg?) somehow responsible and bad as well? did my new battery cause it? What I am looking to do going forward is a high out put stator so I can run some aux lights and a rad fan, possibly some other small accessories. Can I keep the kit as is if I can repair it and add more dc power or scrap it all and start from scratch. If the kit is working its fine as is I just need more power so what's the best way to go about that? Thanks again everyone

    oops the battery photo didnt make it, its a duracell 12v 1.3 ah agm
  18. esteyes

    esteyes Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    Oddometer:
    91
    Location:
    Escondido in SoCal
    looks like that is the ground wire for the regulator/rectifier. failures like this are often due to connections that are not tight (or loosened over time) or the clamping screw does not compress all the wires and then the current going thru slowly cooks the wire which raises the copper's resistance which just makes everything worse. there are a few versions of this style of connector, the best employing some kind of captive plate for the screw to tighten against and squish the bare wire, or like Neutrik does, a thin copper sleeve for the bare wires to slip into and then both get inserted and the screw compresses the sleeve trapping the wires and compressing them as well. you didn't post a picture of the other side of the board so i assume there were no damaged traces - those can be bridged with a section of wire. here is a link showing how to test a r/r.

    https://www.partzilla.com/blog/how-...uNhA8XsehwoGls_Tbfoy-vicedjRoAzRoCCJMQAvD_BwE

    my experience on uprated stators is that as you go bigger, you have more wattage to shunt when the bike is not using all the stator output. that makes the smaller r/r's that tend to be used on d/s'ed bikes marginal. i don't think many of this style/size excede 150w capacity. when i put the 330w stator on my XRL, i was running dual 6" lamps w/ H4 halogen bulbs. about 60mi after i swapped to LED bulbs, i toasted the oem r/r. i was on a ride up to la from sd late at nite and the bike just quit while i was hauling *ss down the fwy. soon as i stopped i could smell the cooked battery. of course running down the fwy at speed for an hr means constant high output from the stator whereas just riding around on the street does not generate that kind of output for any length of time. but the reduction in demand and the production of a/c wattage overwhelmed my oem r/r.

    i am not sure of the cause, but i have mentioned a few things. to me, that the damage is from the connecter back to the r/r points toward the screw connecter. the terminal block can be repaired/replaced. the r/r can be tested for functionality. i do not believe your new battery caused it. (remember not to change to a lithium battery w/o installing a matching r/r) i think you can keep the kit w/ some mods. depends on what stator you buy. some clear pix of both sides that have the labelling on the board readable would be a start - the ones you posted are pretty good but some stuff is hidden.

    hope this helps. sorry for the lengthy...
  19. Ratdotl

    Ratdotl n00b

    Joined:
    May 13, 2019
    Oddometer:
    3
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Thanks so much for your reply. I was able to replace the block and re solder, tightening screws as well. I think you are right on, a loose connection arcing over time till it fried. It all works now solving part of my quest. I'm fairly certain 2 new led aux lights at 40 w each ,plus a rad fan etc will not work with the stock stator so I'm thinking keep the kit and rewind the stator to 200w all DC, since I think the kit is all DC anyway, and use a bigger battery if I need to. Am I headed in the right direction? Thanks again, it's awesome to be able to pick brains like this, I know there are so many xrr guys who have gone before me and I benefit from all that experience.
  20. esteyes

    esteyes Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    Oddometer:
    91
    Location:
    Escondido in SoCal
    as a trace is more likely to be damaged than the wire, and one wasn't i assumed, so i guessed the problem lay in the connector. a 40w lamp is ~3A @13v. and led's require dc. personally i prefer headlites on a/c and the rest of the bike on dc. part of that comes from the fact that many if not most uprated stators you buy are dual windings. using a/c to power your headlites allows you to: run higher wattage bulbs w/o having to increase wire gauge (meaning no need to rewire bike) to prevent voltage drop (a halogen killer) and not have to add a relay to the h/l circuit to preserve your handlebar switch and bulbs. going to dc for headlites, one should really use the handlebar switch to control a relay which sb wired with heavier gauge wire directly to the battery. anyway, Xrider posted this to a query about xr650r dual sporting:

    I've put quite a few big stators in XRs and this is the setup I like best and that has been the most durable.
    First I start with a Baja Designs 250w (125w x2) rewound stator. It is the highest output that I've found and in my opinion nobody does it better. This is a dual output stator so I run one output to a B.D. regulator/rectifier (reg/rect is rated at 160w) giving me 125w DC. Here in California to be street legal you have to be able to run your tail light for 20 minutes with the motor off. So I run the DSK and the bike from the DC side, the CDI gets it's power from a third coil on the stator so it's not a factor when calculating the load. The bike, the battery, the blinkers, and tail/stop light take about 30w. I replace the 35w headlight with a 55/60w halogen which means there is 35-40w DC left for heated grips, GPS, iPod, etc.

    The second 125w output from the stator I run through an AC regulator (the stock Honda unit will work just fine) and use it to power two 55w halogen projector beam off road lights that I mount up front on a light bar. Ricky Stator makes an excellent product however with only 100w per side you can't run two 55w halogens and the majority of after market halogen lights are 55w. I use an automotive style relay wired so that the off road lights go on when the high beam is switched on. 170w of light make the darkest mountain road or trail on a moonless night a piece of cake.

    HID lights (the very best) offer twice as much light from half as much power at about 10x the cost of halogens. If you go with HID you will need an all DC system.

    if you do go to a dual wound stator as mentioned above, you can keep the circuit board and all the wiring intact. you will need an a/c regulator, some wire to go from under seat to h/l area, a relay, and either a new h/l socket or recycle your existing one. plus some connectors of course. you will use the current h/l wiring to control a relay which will be switching a/c between the high and low beams (you will only use the high beam dc wire). if you send me some pix with all the writing clearly visible and also one of the backside of the board, i can then see what's what. looks to me like there is a flasher on the top right, and maybe a h/l relay maybe even running off a/c (interesting note about grounds), and i don't know offhand what the round thing on its side w/ 5 wires is... i googled looking for any electrex info and had no joy, but 7 years of designing car audio amps etc for a living left me w/ some skills. also you might take a look at the number of wires coming out of the stator cover...

    ttfn