Yamaha T7 TENERE Thread

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by VTbeemer, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. goldentaco

    goldentaco Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Oddometer:
    318
    Location:
    Oakland Bishes!
  2. twinrider

    twinrider Pass the catnip

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Oddometer:
    17,533
    Location:
    日本
    MzunguMoto likes this.
  3. Toei

    Toei Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Oddometer:
    78
    Location:
    Cascadia
    The centerline of the rack looks offset from the center line of the bike?
  4. MzunguMoto

    MzunguMoto rode 15 countries, 180 more to go

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    299
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    I’ve enjoyed Sargent on GS bikes too, but perhaps too heavy for the T7?
  5. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    10,754
    Location:
    Brisbane Northside, OZ
    photo has been taken from the left of dead centre
    snowman394 likes this.
  6. twinrider

    twinrider Pass the catnip

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Oddometer:
    17,533
    Location:
    日本
    I don't think it's much different than the OEM seat as Sargent also uses a plastic base.
  7. Snowbird

    Snowbird Cereal Killer

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,166
    Location:
    Between the Great Lakes and Appalachia
    The Seat Concepts on my KLR is only marginally better than the stock seat was-- but it is noticeably better. A plastic tab on the bottom that locks it in place has broken. The Sargent seat on my first FJR was a lot better than the stock one but was far from perfect-- I still had to use an Eagle Rider pad on long trips. On my second FJR I had Sargent recover the seat, leaving the stock foam, because the stock covering looked so cheap, but the foam was and remains great.
  8. minkyhead

    minkyhead Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,436
    Location:
    uk gods county
    using me patented airhawk seat not one for the style concoius :hmmmmm

    the airhawks are super comfy only if they say in the right place ...great when your settling down to a long run but when starting stopping opening gates standing then sitting they go awol sliding forward back side to side and the cushion itself can move in the cover anyone who has used one will know how annoying it is when they move and how good they are when in the sweet spot so to speak
    what i do is velcro the cushion to the seat of the cover inside and then use 3m double tape to put velcro tiger stripes on the seat and the bottom of the airhawk cover ..it sticks proper well
    ..the result is a super stable seat pad that will stay in place even on the roughest bucking track and stay comfy every time you sit again
    ..you can peel it off and leave it off in seconds should you want to have that bit of extra leg room for rivers or all day off road ..ive got all three bikes tigered up so i can throw it on any in seconds

    im first to say they aint the the most pretty things on the planet ..but tbo i dont really care ..super comfy and really works well ...the 3m tape will come off with a heat gun and leave no residue ......it taken some stick that airhawk but is supeamly comfy..the bigger cruiser ones are way better than them little duel sport ones i think ...if you can live with the looks ??

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  9. MzunguMoto

    MzunguMoto rode 15 countries, 180 more to go

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    299
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    hmmm... I have an air hawk shaped very rectangularly (perhaps a passenger seat version?) that I got for like $5 at a swap meet... I might consider this approach given that one is even smaller than the one you’ve got the Velcro placement would be even more important
  10. minkyhead

    minkyhead Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,436
    Location:
    uk gods county
    good cheap experiment for you ...you could double up the stripes on the bottom of the seat cover to give wiggle room forward and back .. they work best with the minimun of air inside sit on it and let the valve go slow .se how the mop flops ..bigger is better but it will give you a idea
  11. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Oddometer:
    959
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    What is the "tough Goldilocks problem" according to you? From what Yamaha's very own project leader has stated and what we know about the engine, the problem Yamaha solved was developing the T7 around a wet sump engine designed for street use. They did not re-design the engine to move the countershaft sprocket higher for anti-squat. If anything, they'd want to move the engine lower for COG, but then the ground clearance would suffer even more than with a shorter engine. This means the countershaft sprocket location is where it is first and foremost due to the overall packaging of the engine in the frame, i.e. what a coincidence that this is great for anti-squat, not OMG look at what Yamaha did all in the name of anti-squat. Profitable mass production engineering is more about making differentiated variants with shared components than about making magic with every new design. This is especially the case for the Japanese mfgs, look no further than Yamaha's own five separate applications of it's triple cylinder (MT/FZ, FJ, XSR, Tracer, Nikken).

    lithodave, whisperquiet, Cruz and 3 others like this.
  12. MzunguMoto

    MzunguMoto rode 15 countries, 180 more to go

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    299
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Shucks, I had hoped this topic had died out on its own steam...

    Other than the large majority that haven’t paid much attention, we have two camps on this forum.
    (1) some folks believe much of what we’ve got in the T7 is a happy accident, usually coming to this conclusion after some tangent regarding anti squat and the CP2 engine lifted from the FZ07 - I just don’t know why you didn’t buy the AT or 790 then
    (2) others believe the engineering was a more deliberate effort to create something glorious within the design constraints: CP2 engine from FZ07, $10k price point, being better out of the box (as the FZ07 was) than any other bike in the segment

    Belief (2) defines the Goldilocks problem Yamaha solves from my POV, and it wasn’t an accident. The bottom up random approach in (1) seems silly. It’s not the way things are built, when designed well.

    Variables impacting dynamic performance such as center of gravity, anti squat or even wet weight could be tweaked along with fueling, suspension, frame stiffness, etc. We feel all that when assessing if it’s better than other options. We feel the $10k sticker when we decide if the value is worth it for what you get. And we feel the nuance of the CP2 performance, tunes for this application. But were the changes to solve the Goldilocks problem in (2), or just are the net effects of the constraints (1)? Everyone is free to his/her own opinion.

    And before another person quotes that terrible interview with the chief engineer, please do some research on Asian business and engineering culture. I think Japan has made a lot of progress, and Toyota is likely most progressive in this regard. Honda remains more old school. Yamaha I don’t know for sure, but they’re not Toyota.

    Just to put a point on it, here is what it can look like when things go really wrong:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...61b3ca-e7f5-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story.html


    So when an international moto journalist does that kind of interview with the Chief Engineer from a Japanese company, I am highly skeptical of the one word directional answers (e.g., bobble head instrument cluster and consequential impact to headlight)... the detailed ones can be insightful. But there’s no way we’ve got the nuance from that exchange that we’d all want.

    does that make sense?

    again, all just my opinion - you asked for it.
    lithodave likes this.
  13. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Oddometer:
    959
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    That's a real long post just to say "the goldilocks problem is a mid-weight adventure bike for $10k better than anything else in it's class". And if that's a "problem", it's not really a problem Yamaha solved, it's a choice they made. I have no idea why any other Japanese mfg couldn't have made something very similar to solve this "problem". They just chose not to. Not in their deck of cards at the moments. Perhaps if anything, the T7 is a miracle of economics...hard to say without knowing the cost-analyses of other mfgs who have considered throwing their hat in this particular ring. But really I don't see where Yamaha is doing anything that we could say "other mfgs couldn't do that". Don't get me wrong, I like the T7 and understand it's uniqueness in this segment. I am particularly fond of how they went with that bad-ass rally front end especially at the price point, it makes the Decepticon-made-love-with-a-praying-mantis front end on the 790 look that much worse, which is tough to do :lol3 Now why other Japanese mfgs haven't made a bike like the T7, whether or not a cost/economic issue, is the real mystery - 850 AT and KLX700 rumors notwithstanding as a forthcoming response.

    Also, I'll take the words of the Yamaha engineer for what they are, not much to be lost in translation with his simple response that is perfectly in-line with what we already know about the engine from other Yamaha sources. "Camps"? Your description of this discussion is very ... elaborate. I've just been talking about FortNine's narrative on the so-called revolutionary anti-squat properties Yamaha designed into the T7. Everything else about the T7 being bad-ass is warranted albeit as noted above none of it is a miracle in the sense that we could very well see similar bikes from other Japanese mfgs soon.
  14. MzunguMoto

    MzunguMoto rode 15 countries, 180 more to go

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    299
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    They’d need an engine as stellar as the 689cc CP2...

    Could KTM make a 790 Dakar?
    Yes, but it’ll be $15k

    Could Honda make a smaller AT?
    With a new engine, possibly in 2025.

    Could Suzuki use a 650+ V-twin and make a V-storm desirable enough to beat out the T7?
    Doubtful.

    Does Kawasaki have an Adventure KLR hiding in their back pocket?
    IDK.


    All speculation, of course - I hope half of these things do happen.
    duggram likes this.
  15. madrider5150

    madrider5150 Riding somewhere

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,319
    Location:
    PNW
    Nicely set up there, well done!
    minkyhead likes this.
  16. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Oddometer:
    959
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    For plenty of other folks who live on the dirt, the engine is not the most important consideration for a bike like this, it's the suspension. To me, the real miracle to be performed is when someone makes a fork conversion kit to put some WR450 forks on the T7. Then my Goldilocks will finally be sittin' pretty.
    snowman394 likes this.
  17. Snowbird

    Snowbird Cereal Killer

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,166
    Location:
    Between the Great Lakes and Appalachia
    "and it wasn’t an accident." Correct.

    The countershaft sprocket is where it is because it works out well both in making the engine shorter (stacked shafts) and in a range of other applications as we now see in the T7. Not really worth arguing about (as you said) but not an accident by any means. A manufacturer of Yamaha's stature goes through many, many iterations of a design from a doodle on a napkin to full CAD engineering to test mules to customers waiting for their bike to arrive. Great work Yamaha. And I just want my bike. :y0!
    simmons1 and MzunguMoto like this.
  18. MzunguMoto

    MzunguMoto rode 15 countries, 180 more to go

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    299
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Fair enough.

    Out of curiosity, have you ridden the bikes that came before in this segment?

    The KLRs and BMW F650GS Dakars, or the DR650 or even V-Strom? Yeah - that’s it - ride a V-strom to see what a great motor surrounded in pure garbage feels like. It’s not just suspension, but also chassis and how the entire vehicle is engineered. My only useful point is that Yamaha’s compromise bests all that have come before it. The rest can be handled by the aftermarket industry, as needed.

    For me, I plan to live on/off (from?) the bike for some months / years. That means extra fuel, water, food, shelter, all weather gear, garage, laundry, kitchen, etc... that’s ~50-70 liters and at least as many pounds, probably closer to 100 lbs if you include center stand, crash bars, barkbusters, upgraded bash plate, luggage. I’d love to keep her below 500 lbs fully loaded, but that likely means exhaust, lithium battery, and perhaps skipping the center stand and/or engine guards (likely not possible).

    If you live on the dirt, maybe the 790 Adventure is a better fit for you?

    To each his own!
  19. minkyhead

    minkyhead Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,436
    Location:
    uk gods county
    already looked into a fork swop and the bearing conversion is not going to be easy as the headbearings are differeing sizes top and bottom ithink if i remember 47 55
    camel are already doing a prototype kit and there are some comrimises as the 300ml showas have to be internally rstricted to 247 making the rally raid kit at 230 travel a pretty attractive shortcut point being there are alternatives out there for the riders that are next level ...
    ...my own thoughts on this are it is still a 200kgm bike and really should be ridden in places accordingly and most folk aint buying it as a rock hopper thats for sure ...i think with a bit of work on the o/e suspension it can be made to be pleasent enough on the tracks it was designed to do and lost in this is the largly undiscussed road handling and performance and stability which nothing short of very impressive
    ive have done a few bikes with fork conversions but lighter machines with enduro tyres dont have a top speed south of 125mph and theres a lot going on other than just bump absobsion ...softer forks 100mph readily available and brakes that a re suited to it ..rake ... stability...wheel and ground clearance ? are a breif that needs very carful consideration ...and a high fender at 120mph is a uncertain addition to thow on top of all that
    most folks who want extra ability with a big engine will naturally be leaning towards the 701/690 maby the pr7 ..the pr7s suspension is nowt short fab ....so theres pleanty of alternatives for them that need more off road ability ...what you wont get is the bulletproof work of art that is the cp2 motor which id wager will still be turning out qoodles of quality touque when most of the above will be in bits and on ebay
    so as said compare the t7 to the right class seteo klr xt660 ectect but with true grand tourer ability on top .. and it really is a step forward from them and for me thats where the t7 sits ..and im fine with that and compared to them it wil exceed expectations and then some
    tonyubsdell and octagonpilot like this.
  20. MzunguMoto

    MzunguMoto rode 15 countries, 180 more to go

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    299
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    what about the 790?