You guys think Harley Davidson will last?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tessalino, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. sluagh

    sluagh not fade away

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    This is not entirely true. On a lot of bikes the ECU controls both the fuel and throttle.

    Also heavier does not equal better ride. Does a dump truck ride better than a Prius? My Harley softail had a much harsher ride than my 300 lb lighter KTM.
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  2. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    No, you are not listening. You are still talking about the engine at its peak power at given RPM, and assuming I am talking about pushing more fuel. I am talking about pushing less fuel and air. Did it register? Good.

    Let's look at this picture:

    [​IMG]

    Imagine you don't care about engine RPM - and why would you? - and change Diavel's final gear ratio so the rear wheel torque is above that of the Harley's. This way, at ANY given angle of the twist of the throttle handle, Diavel would produce more acceleration force than Harley. Now you can limit that force by mapping down the angle->fuel output curve. Makes sense yet?

    Say, you double the final drive ratio, since Ducati has the double RPM range, it will be *way* above Harley at every point of the range. I am not saying Ducati *should* do it, I am saying Ducati *could* do it, and trounce Harley motor at its own game.

    Now back to the RPM, the ONLY advantage of Harley motor is, while being slower, heavier, and less efficient, you can feel individual pulsations of the engine. While one cannot argue with taste, in my mind, it's an idiotic reason to stick with the otherwise inferior engine. That's what I mean under "antiquated".

    Again, I disagree. By having less weight and more expensive suspension components, Diavel is both more comfortable and more performance-oriented than the Harley. At least to me, there was no comparison, I can ride on Diavel all day, and Harley gave me back pain after half-hour. That's what I mean under "superior", as opposed to a different trade-off.
  3. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    Err should have had HP curve with the torque one. Here it is:

    [​IMG]
  4. Big John Sny

    Big John Sny Long timer

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    sorry, I don't think I can argue with you about this. You do not seem to understand how engines function at a level I can discuss this with you. You are showing a wide open throttle curve. My point is, the curve you are showing is a completely meaningless curve. and has no relation to partial throttle conditions. You cant even somehow work backwards back into them, they are totally unrelated. That is the point.
    A BSFC curve of the Harley and the Diavel would be useful, and we could gain something. If you even had a 25% and 50% throttle position curve we could start to get there.
    One day I will learn to quit discussing engineering related subjects with people on the internet. I'm out.
  5. borderlinebob

    borderlinebob Been here awhile

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    Big John
    This internet person you refer to here on this thread absolutely wears one down.
    Numerous instances of other folks just giving up and in some cases probably blocking him.
    Like a pesky fly or little Chiwawa that always has to get the last nip.
    Best leave them behind.
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  6. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Nice, until you're not.

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    Happy for you. That is the point of a motorcycle, at least in this part of the world. On good days, I feel tremendous pity for people who turn them into something to fight about. On bad days, well...
  7. BobcatSig

    BobcatSig They call me... Huckajawea

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  8. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Nice, until you're not.

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    Probably just the start. Harley's attempt to reinvent itself - 'More Roads' - was going to take patience and a willingness to burn capital, two things a hedge fund isn't interested in. They are now in milking mode, which is sad to see. And what some internet haters don't seem to realize - or at least, I hope they don't - is that fomenting all this antipathy eventually depreciates the value of a brand, further discouraging its owners from doing anything bold. All because they don't like a product nobody is forcing them to buy.

    I wish those folks would turn their guns on cable companies.
  9. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    I wish the arguments on internets could influence the board of directors, they would've been shipping Triumphised Sportsters a long time ago. They don't care.
  10. RightChoice

    RightChoice Been here awhile

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    I do not think that HD will be around in a couple years.
  11. glory racing

    glory racing Been here awhile

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    Looks like Harley is going to have some North American competition:

    At a press conference late Monday, the CEO of Johnson Marine, makers of Johnson outboard marine engines and other recreational equipment, unveiled a new line of heavyweight cruiser style motorcycles designed to compete head to head with industry leader Harley-Davidson. Peter Long, Johnson brands marketing manager said, "We have studied the market and determined that Harley, while highly successful, has narrowly missed the mark when targeting motorcycle buyers". Long added, "We, at Johnson, are convinced our product hits the target dead center and promises to draw sales away from Harley-Davidson in a way no other motorcycle has been able to accomplish".

    The new line of bikes, marketed under the name 'Big Johnson Motorcycles', will, according to Long, deliver what Harley has only promised. "Our research show that this, "Big Johnson" is what Harley buyers are really after". At the unveiling of the new line Monday, several current Harley owners agreed. "When I bought my Harley, what I really needed was a Big Johnson", said one Harley owner." But I see now that riding a Harley is no replacement for having a Big Johnson."

    Manager Long also said that his company would follow the lead of Harley-Davidson and cash in on a huge market for non motorcycle related products. "We realize that not every guy can have a Big Johnson", said Long, "But image is very important to people. If they don't have a Big Johnson, they at least want to project the image of having one."

    Asked if he anticipated Big Johnson's showing up in the hands of Harley owners, Long said it was unlikely. "I just don't see the need to have a Harley if you have a Big Johnson", he said. "And I can't imagine someone who spends all their resources to acquire a Harley having a Big Johnson. I think it boils down to this - You either have a Harley, or you have a Big Johnson, but you are not likely to have both. "Given the choice", said Long. " I think most guys will opt for the Big Johnson". Another force driving sales for the company will come from women. A survey of the wives and girlfriends of nearly 1,000 potential motorcycle buyers indicates less than 5% would approve of their partner spending $15,000 on a Harley Davidson. But, when asked if they would be willing to pay the same amount of money to get their partner a Big Johnson, nearly 4 out 5 thought that would be money well spent.

    One female present at the product unveiling was quoted as saying, "There is no way I will let Lonnie drop 15 grand on another one of those Harley's, but 15 grand to get him a Big Johnson? Well, now that's something we could both enjoy and it's something he really needs."
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  12. RightChoice

    RightChoice Been here awhile

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    Make Big Johnson great again!

    I loved those T-shirts when I was a kid ... Big Johnson Hook & Ladder, etc.
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  13. sluagh

    sluagh not fade away

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    Lame.
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  14. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    FIFY
  15. EdM

    EdM Been here awhile Supporter

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    Is it April 1 already??
  16. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    Yeah............

    [​IMG]
  17. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Not having a dog in this fight, I'm highly amused by the irony of the insecurities displayed by some perpetuating stereotypes to make them feel better about themselves.
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  18. oldgrizz

    oldgrizz Long timer Supporter

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    You think Harleys are a waste?
    How about BMW making a 1600 c.c. 6 cylinder monster that needs reverse so the ones smoking a pipe and wearing slippers can back it up after parking it.
    It has to have electronic locks on the luggage because they are too lazy to use a key in a lock.
    It costs as much as a Harley and takes forever to do an oil change or a valve set.


    There...now let the gates of he'll open.
    I have stirred the pot
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  19. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    It can also ride circles around a Harley at full highway speed. Which Harley will not reach.
  20. oldgrizz

    oldgrizz Long timer Supporter

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    Have you ever ridden a Harley with the new 131 engine. Enough torque to pull tree stumps.
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