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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tessalino, Aug 24, 2019.
131 lb-ft of torque, curiously enough, and 121HP vs. BMW's 129 torques and 160HP. Circles.
I'm beginning to think a Harley dude beat the shit out of you, stole your old lady and pissed on your dog...it's like an obsession with you. Jumping into every Harley thread just to slew your mush. Weird. Ride more, post less.
Oh so the CVO Harleys are new to you? Honestly I've considered a Champion reverse kit for my Road King 'cause it's a bitch to get out of some parking spots and my garage too. And I push these 800 pound muthas around all day long at work.
The arguments with the big heavy bikes vs real touring comfort will rage on forever. I wish there was some magic perfect bike that is light, fast, stable, comfortable, ect... now my personal feeling as a rider is torque is great, but enough is enough. I don't need to pull tree stumps, I need something tuned to go fast over a wide rpm range and something smooth, exciting, bulletproof and characterful. I don't know what that is, might give Guzzi a look.
I see guys blasting out of parking lots on Harleys like they are rockets,open pipes roaring - but up in the mountains, I am either staying back waiting for them or passing them. Because up there all the torque in the world aint shit if you don't have all the other elements of speed. I don't really race but if I did, eventually even my old DL1000 with only 75 ft-lbs of torque would eventually get around them and then its " bye bye" . Because it doesn't need to loose all its speed in the corners and it can take any line I want.
None of the motorcycles I’ve owned was the best at what it did. Some were over ten years old when I bought them. I still enjoyed them. So it’s no wonder I love riding my 2018 Road King. It’s not the best and it’s a dated design. Still does the job and it’s lots of fun. And has no problem with damaged pavement or dirt roads.
Dude it's a joke. Not the best and similar to others but related directly to the topic. Let's hear yours.
Several here need to just Relax and enjoy the ride.
From what I've seen, those "slow ass Harley" riders are enjoying their ride. It just seems to bother some who consider all other road users as nothing more than annoyances to be passed.
Perhaps its they who need to relax, and not be so out of step with their environment.....bla,bla,bla......
This racerboyz, vs roadhogs feud is getting silly.
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This was part of the original post almost a year ago.
And—-the title of thread was
“you guys think Harley Davidson will last?
And this is where we end up.
There was a legitimate question asked in OP as the guy was thinking of buying a Harley. Or was he? Maybe just stirring?
Wonder what he has done? He abandoned this thread last Oct.
Just entertainment for me.
There is nothing more subjective than a motorcycle, at least if you're not depending on it for basic transportation. Therefore, all a motorcycle has to do is make its owner happy, and there is some good data to suggest that the bikes with the most objective 'flaws' often seem to have the happiest owners.
Yeah, the motorcycles are okay. I just think " Torque is cheap"
bigger piston = more torque. Ok, I got it. But its like super huge fake boobs.... there is a good amount, and then there is ridiculous.
We rented an Electra Glide last summer for the Cabot trail. It had the Milwauke 8 engine. While it wasn't really fast, it moved along okay and we enjoyed it. It was better than okay - it moved smartly. I wouldn't say it was " fast". It was lovely. So much better than the old Twin Cam motor, that was awful.
I don't think the debate will ever end.
People like different bikes for different reasons.
Yep you could do a cross country trip on a 50 c.c scooter if you felt like it.
I think Harley will be around for a long time yet.
Yes they may have to adapt to this changing world but so are a lot of other manufactures.
I don't think any 1 bike is 100 per cent perfect for every riding adventure.
I wouldn't want to take an Ultra Glide to ride the Road of Bones.
However I think one would be very comfortable for a trip across Canada.
So it boils down to ....you pays your money and takes your chances.
My ideal stable if I had a shit load of money to spend.
2020. KTM Super Adventure S
2020 KTM 790 R
My 2012 Yamaha FJR
2020 Ducati Street fighter
2020 Harley Davidson ULTA Glide
BMW. 1000 XR just for fun in the mix.
And maybe a 250 c.c enduro of some make just to have a bike to play with on the logging roads and trails.
However I guess I will just load up my FJR and hit the road for 3 weeks.
In addition to my Road King I have a 2004 Aprilia Tuono. I enjoy both of them very much. If it is running well,has two wheels and you're not having fun it ain't the bike.
Unless it's a KLR...
Harley does not need to lose all it's speed in a corner unless someone lowers it. When/if i decide to get one, I will raise it. Just one inch rise and good suspension will do wonders for the big ole pig.
I have to agree. I thought "reinventing itself" would mean expanding the models outside the cruiser genre. They recently announced that the two boldest new models (the Bronx and Pan America) will not come out until 2021. That sounds more like sitting on their hands for another year than "reinventing themselves".
Most likely they are afraid to bring out new models during uncertain times, only to see them fail. However, it seems like their older clientele might be the ones not working right now, and not spending money. The younger buyers who might go for those bold new models are buying right now. I'm seeing lots of big KTMs, BMWs, etc out there. I'm sure a certain percentage of them would love to own an American made alternative, even it it was in the teething stage for those styles of bike. In fact, Indian is making some pretty attractive bikes just outside the traditional cruiser genre with their Scout Bobber and FTR1200.
Harley waited too long, then charged too much for the Livewire. I hope they aren't making the same mistake again.
Turning a battleship is hard. And takes a long time. If they can even get it done...
I believe they're making a worse one. Before this thread turned into a dumpster fire, I cast my vote on the side of a likely bright future for Harley. I would have made that bet based on the "More Roads" strategy they formally announced in 2018. That strategy was fundamentally about diversification. Smaller bikes, new segments, new overseas markets. It was an attempt to leverage their very valuable brand while they still could. And while I get that it might have proven too late, I had some sympathy for trying to teach a heritage brand new tricks. There's no good time for that kind of transformation, but I thought it was the right answer.
The strategy of the new CEO, who was placed there by Impala, is called "Rewire." These are the key points in their words, along with my less-than-two-cents about what they mean:
Enhance core strengths and better balance expansion into new spaces (I read this to mean a return to focusing on core products and consumers, and most industry folks seem to agree that is their intention)
Prioritize the markets that matter (I read this to mean they're going to slow down international expansion)
Reset product launches and product line up for simplicity and maximum impact (I read this to mean that while the Pan-America and Bronx horses may have bolted the barn, they're going to put the brakes on everything else)
Build the Parts & Accessories and General Merchandise businesses to full potential (I read this as a concession to the dealers. In any case, it's a pretty concerning facet of the 'return to core' focus)
Adjust and align the organizational structure, cost structure and operating model to reduce complexity and drive efficiency to set Harley-Davidson up for stability and success (The key words here in corporate speak are 'drive efficiency'. This means job losses and plant closures, made more possible by canceling new products)
The point is, they were going to change, and now they're kinda not. This is classic hedge fund behavior, anti-growth, and generally results in the hollowed out carcass of a business being wound up or sold for scrap. So if I had a do-over on the OP's original question, my vote would now be "yeah, probably long enough for you to enjoy your new bike, as long as it's a traditional Harley. But don't bet your kid's education fund on the stock." Or something like that. I think it's really quite sad and hope I'm wrong. I don't get Harleys, personally, but they seem to make a lot of people happy. It would be a great loss.
THIS IS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT!!
Again, whether "Harley will survive" has absolutely nothing to do with any individual's tastes in motorcycles. It is all about Harley the company and how they manage their product line, what they do to control costs, how they maintain manufacturing capacity vs. demand, and lots of other stuff that basically has nothing to do with motorcycles at all.
The moves that they appear to be making in their "Rewire" effort seem to be, on the surface, sort of in the right direction. They seem to be acknowledging that there is a permanent reduction in demand for their traditional product, so they must make a permanent reduction in manufacturing and cost. This would ordinarily result in a permanent reduction in revenue and therefore a rebellion of the board and shareholders except that between the lines they point out their plan to expand on the PG&A which may almost literally turn Harley into an apparel and accessories company with a side business selling motorcycles. Since American graybeard buyers will wear a leather vest whether it's made in Vietnam or in Wisconsin, but they won't buy a Harley that's not made by American union members, this is an excellent business move.
I still doubt it will work, because in my opinion it's too little too late. Well, it may save them from complete death but it won't save them from crippling decline. Again, my opinion. But even though I haven't ridden a Harley, I am not uninformed about business of making products.
I actually like them, but they don't have a model that fits my needs right now.
The Livewire would have been a perfect money saving commuter for me, as my company would let me charge it every day for free. I rode one of the prototypes and loved it. The price made it not feasible for me.
The Bronx looks like a great sport naked for those in the market for something like a Yamaha FZ1.
The Pan America appeals to me, even though I am thinking about moving from 400+ lb adv bike to a 300 lbs dual sport. I could see myself buying one as I get older, and building a sidecar rig out of it. Again, though, I can't justify spending a significant amount of my nest egg on a toy. I'd need to wait and get one used for $10K or less.
I rode my friend's Street Glide, and thought it was like a 1960s Cadillac coupe. Smooth, big, and classy. There's no way I could slide the back wheel around in my garage to go back down the hill though.
Sure ya can just turn off the TC and have at it.