1. Adventure Rider Print Magazine!
    We're doing a print magazine this November - 128 pages of high quality adventure riding stories, photography and interviews!

    Click here to purchase a copy for $9. Limited copies still available.
    Dismiss Notice

You guys think Harley Davidson will last?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tessalino, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Oddometer:
    4,198
    Location:
    Da frozen tundra eh? 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
    I've never run into this myself. But in my opinion any dipshit that says "get a real bike" is simply a non-motorcyclist and is insecure about his/her identity to the point they rely on the bike/image to identify themselves more than just be who they really are.

    As to Harley surviving, I hope so. Never owned a Harley (even though I am their prime demographic). I may own one someday, like a XR1200, which itself shows I don't fit the typical HD demographic. HD has made some untimely moves lately. The Livewire is a great electric bike, but $30K for an off beat Harley would never/will never revive their sales. Funny though, every news/market reference to HDs current state tells a story that the Livewire was supposed to save Harley? Obviously the persons reporting that have no real knowledge of the motorcycle market or Harley in general. The HD Panamerica adventure bike, the Bronx, and some other models came out to a failing market slaughtered by COVID. Perhaps a better world market could show those bikes as good moves by Harley. Harley has shown in the past they can engineer a "new" Harley. Worse still, Harley is marketing a Chinese built 350: https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/photos-reveal-chinese-harley-davidson-hd350/ intended for the Asian markets (doubtful it'll arrive on US shores). However, the entire world is up in arms due to the origin of COVID19 being Chinese. I for one, now consider the country of origin a major purchasing factor, which rules out anything made in China. Seems that for the last ten years HD has been consistently missing the mark to new growth. Meanwhile, even in a very down world market, BMW and other makers are well down but surviving; https://www.motorcyclesdata.com/2020/06/02/bmw-motorrad/

    Hopefully, the final shake down of HD will reveal a smaller sustainable company more eager to finally show they can, and will, produce and sell bikes that are not only just the typical Harley, at prices that can get more riders, new riders, to join the market.
    AZbiker likes this.
  2. CrapKerouac

    CrapKerouac Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Oddometer:
    1,489
    Location:
    Canada
    I scrolled through the top comments but it got pretty redundant fast. Someone posted this video. This is not going help HDs plight. It most likely harmed its image.
    BobcatSig, ZoomerP and Sal Pairadice like this.
  3. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,237
    I'm not denying the wanna-be, outlaw scene is not part of the *cruiser* culture...... yes, all American style, authentic or clone, v-twin cruisers have sections of their respective ownership groups that embrace that image, not just HD owners, I'm just saying don't put the HD bikes and all HD owners down because of it. Separate the two. One poster here can't do that. Thinks you gotta be stupid to own such a POS as HD when hey...look at his marvelous bike that does everything perfectly and is the envy of all enlightened, skilled riders. Silly? Yes, but that's about the petulant gist of the argument: Mine's better than yours! lol...

    In the end, it's all good fun and part of that fun is dressing the part. Just ask Kawazukiondaaha sport bike owners who ride with one piece track suits sliders attached, on public roads. :-) Does that mean for example that all in line four RR bikes are P'sOS because all they are is track focused, and their owners are troglodytes for acting like idiots on public roads, racing around with open race cans? How about the adventure riders all geared up to tackle the Kalahari dessert in order to go for a Sunday ride to the local coffee shop with nary a spec of dirt on their nobbies. Idiots? Morons? Jokes? Posers? I'm sure there are thousands of people who look at these types of riders and say they will never own a "crotch rocket" or a "dessert sled" because they perceive those types of riders with the same disdain aimed at HD riders/bikes. It's a shame, and it goes round and round. It's not just about HD outlaw types. Point your finger, throw a stone?...better to look at yourself. :-)

    There is an element within all ownership groups who give the rest a "bad name". And that's not the bike's fault, no matter the bike. :-)
    AZbiker, Traxx, mwzl and 3 others like this.
  4. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP . Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Oddometer:
    1,173
    Location:
    American Southwest-ish
    I didn't say otherwise. I find the entire tribal identity "scene" thing to be just another facet of humanity.
    BobcatSig likes this.
  5. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever It turns out you can't delete your account...

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,834
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    True. I guess I was exploiting your post to make a point.

    'Tribalism' is an great word. I don't think riding and dressing in a certain style is tribal, but deciding it makes you special is. And so is crapping on people who don't do it the way you do. Looks like we agree on that.
    ZoomerP likes this.
  6. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP . Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Oddometer:
    1,173
    Location:
    American Southwest-ish
    I don't get the shit talking, and I'll give another rider or driver a nod on the road, no matter what they're on or in. Hell, I'm just glad they saw me.

    In a broad sense, I see these groupings as similar to tribes. Ride the same type of bikes, dress the same, go on the same rides, talk the same trash, etc. There's nothing wrong with that for the most part - breaking laws & the like crosses a line for some, not so much for others.

    Part of HD's problem may be that they've so closely embraced a tribal identity that appears to be falling out of favor. Their latest business plan doesn't seem to address that in any way.
    BetterLateThanNever likes this.
  7. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Oddometer:
    6,683
    Location:
    Seattle
    Cause Harleys are known to vibrate like a paint shaker so how does he know it's worn out factory part and not an expected behavior?
  8. JRMAL

    JRMAL Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Oddometer:
    3,774
    Location:
    N. Michigan
    Imagine owning a Harley and Jeep at the same time.
    My arm is worn out from waving and I might need rotator cuff surgery.

    Jeep will survive as Harley will.
    AZbiker, phughes and Traxx like this.
  9. Sal Pairadice

    Sal Pairadice Captain Obvious

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2018
    Oddometer:
    1,480
    Location:
    New York
    Jeep did not survive. What you call a Jeep is a Fiat rebadged by way of what used to be Chrysler.
    BobcatSig likes this.
  10. Sal Pairadice

    Sal Pairadice Captain Obvious

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2018
    Oddometer:
    1,480
    Location:
    New York

    OMG... sofa king funny.
    Traxx likes this.
  11. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,237
    When was the last time the rubber mounts were changed? How many miles on the bike? Does he change his own oil and if so, does he let the oil drain over the front mount, or does the shop he gets the oil changed at do that? (Hot motor oil degrades the mount) What do fellow Dyna Glide riders say, as in does he belong to an on line forum? Does he have a GHDSM? How "hard" do those vibrations feel? How hard does he ride the bike? What types of roads does he ride on? Has he dialed in his suspension? Tires over inflated? Many variables, but safe to say, if he's rattling battery cables off the terminals, his vibrations are too harsh: engine mounts indicated if all else is well.

    I owned a trouble free and very enjoyable FXDL for 2 years. Bought it to slow down as my license was hanging by a thread. Traded it in on my present Ducati. Really enjoyed that Dyna Glide ride, especially the paint shaker engine that smooths out very nicely once at speed. In those 2 years, I had the engine mounts changed. How did I know they needed to be changed? The bike's vibrations changed to harsh from mellow. It was a "feeling", not a "measurement", that came from familiarity with the machine. Sometimes, there is no other way to tell. And before you go off on a tangent about how shitty that is, remember, I've been changing/tensioning my cam belts for the last 15 years, using "feel". Does that mean my Ducati is a POS, or that sometimes, the "measurement problem" is just that, a problem no matter what scientific method you use? Some guys have even tried frequency measurements using some type of app on their smart phones, only to abandon it out of frustration in trying to replicate and match frequencies i.e. a measurement problem, and went back to using feel. I've never used a torque wrench on any oil plug I've replaced in my life either. Never a problem with my belts; never a problem with drain plugs. "Feel is real". Just made that up lol...

    And oh,...the battery cables on my Dyna, stayed put. :-) That Dyna ran like a top. I had a lot of fun on it. Worst decision HD ever made was killing the Dyna line of bikes IMO. :-(
    AZbiker and Traxx like this.
  12. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,237
    Right? lol... :-)
    Traxx likes this.
  13. borderlinebob

    borderlinebob Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Oddometer:
    531
    Location:
    CANADA-100 ft N of International Falls, MN
    Holy crap.
    I was gone 3 days on a ride with my bro.
    Me on my little CB500X and he on his Heritage classic with the larger engine and the noisy pipes.
    A real a Mutt & Jeff or Ying & Yang show.
    Totally mismatched bikes but it’s “really” about the ride isn’t it ????

    Anyway I open this forum after 4 days away and this thread has reall grown.
    Then I see the great fisherman has been at it.
    He is really the Master Baiter—He knows what bait to dangle in front of everyone. He has hooked a lot of ya/us.
    I personally don’t respond directly to him any more. Can’t be bothered.
    If the guy spent the time on his flower shop or art gallery or whatever he’s got going on instead of on here, maybe he’d make enuff $$ to buy him a Harley.

    Live and let live.
    Ride and let ride.
    Whatever they want to be on.:y0!
    Traxx likes this.
  14. CrapKerouac

    CrapKerouac Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Oddometer:
    1,489
    Location:
    Canada
    You would think it was a parody.
    phughes likes this.
  15. Traxx

    Traxx Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Oddometer:
    2,619
    Location:
    Ft Worth Texas
    https://www.fiatusa.com/
    Can you show me the Wrangler or Grand Cherokee in that line up?
  16. sluagh

    sluagh not fade away

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2019
    Oddometer:
    448
    Location:
    USA
    Fiat is a subsidiary of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles. FCA US LLC is another subsidiary which manufacturers vehicles under the Jeep, Dodge and Ram brand names.
    BobcatSig likes this.
  17. Traxx

    Traxx Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Oddometer:
    2,619
    Location:
    Ft Worth Texas
    Okay, where is the wrangler and grand Cherokee in that line up?
  18. 11motos

    11motos Feral Rider

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Oddometer:
    2,335
    Location:
    On the Road
    IMHO, A lot of people worry a lot what they are ridding w/o knowing where they are going.
    Maybe same who worry too much about their hats vs what is actually happening under that hat.

    I love all bikes but even more where we are going to ride and what we are going to see.

    A harley is not my first choice but if someone gave me one, I would take it.
    In terms of feasibility of a business I think manufactures need to make things people want to buy
    and tap into not current but future markets (younger folks have lower budgets).
    I would think these days any manufacturer should diversify a little and possibly have one small/midsize single
    for affordable models or at least some sort of reliable parallel twin design, light, efficient and reliable.
    a parallel twin would be VooDoo for HD? not sure why. World = constant change.
    once you have that all sort of possibilities open up for motorcycles and to be able to reach a wider market.

    One thing is clear. The japanese have the work cut out for anyone in terms of quality, versatility and overall value.
    Same thing with cars.

    Simple facts cannot be ignored no matter how passionate we are about our favorite brand and culture.
    Traxx likes this.
  19. GapRunr

    GapRunr Well known Hermit

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Oddometer:
    644
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Might be easier to watch if the camera man didn't have Parkinsons. Good thing the woman on the sport bike already had a half shell helmet. Cuz you know.... you see that a lot on a sport bike.

    Edit: I think that the stereotypes and imagery in this video will appeal to the aging and diminishing demographic Harley currently targets, but will hurt them with the younger demographic they should be targeting their marketing towards.
  20. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    15,491
    Location:
    the hills
    Never seen anyone get so excited about a Honda.
    AZbiker and Traxx like this.