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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tessalino, Aug 24, 2019.
The first thing you have to surrender to sign your soul for a Harley loan is the sense of humour.
I have heard of that type of thing occurring, the place I bought mine sold Kawasaki,Triumph,HD,John Deere and Polaris,so I never ran into any of that hostility, and I was happy with any dealings that I had with them.
I’ve had both plus a Guzzi and several BMWs tell me what I am
Cool, I am sure that not all dealerships have that mindset, just the few that I have went to, enough for me to not explore any further.
I had ridden a few sporties and wanted to feel the improvements that Eric had made to the gearbox and refinement to that engine in a more sporty platform. I probably should not have been so honest with them, they certainly didn’t want to admit that some random guy could improve the holy grail.
As a company it is dumb to foster that kind of ‘mentality’.
I most certainly am not saying that the owners are dumb, but the company has projected some really stupid images and behaviour.
Oh I wasn't defending that NYCHD video. I just wasn't railing against it in order to virtue signal. ;-)
I don't see why anybody would firstly, be offended by it, since as you say, sex sells, and secondly, take it so seriously. Doing so would just be an extension of a pre-existing disdain for all things HD IMO. Since I don't suffer from "HD derangement syndrome", (which is why this and all other HD bashing threads exist to answer your question) I was able to watch it without an anti HD bias and saw it as ridiculous, non threatening and in bad humor or tone deaf as you say and in no way did it change my mind about HD as a possible future purchase. Like I've said before, i don't confuse the machine for the scene. Maybe you do? Certainly you didn't think they were being serious with that nonsense did you?
But seriously...how many women do you see riding pillion on adventure bikes compared to HDs? Right? Or even more seriously, how many women do you see riding adventure bikes compared to HD? So, Mr Advertising genius, it seems to me they have both areas of the saddle already covered. I doubt that bit of fluff will be the final nail in HDs coffin.
Sorry about that.
VW owning Ducati through their ownership of Audi, sucks from a brand perspective IMO. When that deal first came down, Audi/VW were very deliberate in stating they were going to "let Ducati be Ducati" and not interfere as they sensed if not felt the backlash from the Ducatisti about their beloved and storied Italiano bikes falling into the hands of the Tedescos. FIAT refused to pay the large fortune VW paid, because Piech wanted a prestige motorcycle brand, and himself was a Ducatista. Also, and more recently, Ducati was rumored to be up for sale so VW could help pay for their despicable dieselgate scandal and the current CEO said there were very few benefits to be realised from any technology exchange between Audi and Ducati, since cars are cars and bikes are bikes and they are very different as a rationalisation for seling Ducati. Trouble is, they paid 1.2 billion!!!! So, in that regard, there is a big diff between FIAT buying Chrysler in order to get a pre-existing dealer network/showrooms for their reentry into US markets, vs VW owning Ducati for prestige.
Well, last time HD was bought out, AMF squeezed them for every penny they could and just about killed them off. The Board bought HD back by going public, the Evo was introduced, and the rest is history making history.
The new CEO at HD killed the diversification focused "Many Roads" to HD marketing and product development plan of the former CEO, and now they are on a "Rewire" track, killing off Many Roads initiatives including maybe even the Pan Am and Bronx models to get back to their roots again like they did before when they killed off Buell to survive the 2008 crash.
I'm virtue signaling? No, just calling those ads what they are. I find the HD-NYC ad to be crap, start to finish, same as the HD cuck ad. I find nothing about either funny or appealing, I think there are far better ways to sell motorcycles, and the medley of ads has many examples of how it can be done. Unlike you, I can say that without trying to marginalize someone by hanging a sign on them. Smart ads would strike directly at the heart of negative stereotypes about HD, not reinforce them.
I find those ads to be examples of HD tarnishing their brand. I agree that it is nonsense, and it's exactly the kind of nonsense that many people want nothing to do with. The only thing being threatened by any of HD's stupidity is the company. If they want to drive away customers by promoting such stereotypes, they're welcome to it. Ads are supposed to strengthen a brand and encourage sales. If HD thinks that's what they've done, they're hopelessly lost. If you can't see how either ad would offend anyone, that's your problem, not mine.
I've noticed that your defense of HD's crap ads (and you certainly have been defending them) involves dragging other ads into the mix, rather than focusing on the HD ads. It's a weak tactic used to defend the indefensible. Sounds like something a clueless HD exec would do. Also note that I haven't said a word about HD bikes, so you can save your HD bashing tears for some other perceived slight.
The HD NYC ad is low browed and designed to appeal more to the knuckle dragger mentality. They are selling egos for those who need it. Putting down other brands in an attempt to make your own look better is poor marketing. Why deny HD is more about ego sales than motorcycling. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore.
Harley-Davidson will live on as long as there are those who feel compelled to comment on something they neither own nor want.
There's too much value in the brand for it to simply die, but I'm not sure what the rest of that statement has to do with the viability of the company. As long as motorcycles are legal and affordable, people will buy them, and there will be diehard HD riders for a very long time. That doesn't mean HD won't fall into the clutches of another company before long, though.
HD's marketshare is falling, their competition is gaining strength, and their customer base is aging out. In the face of that, they've purposely turned away from engaging new buyers with new products. I guess we'll see if that improves things, but I have my doubts.
They seem a decent candidate for acquisition, and it's been theorized that current management is priming the company for that end. Ultimately, that may be the best path forward for HD, given their recent management history.
LOL...no, bashing HD execs for not being advertising geniuses like you, who is apparently the self-appointed pinnacle lecturer of what are and are not effective ads, is not bashing the bikes...directly, but rather obliquity. Dumb execs, dumb company, dumb bikes, dumb bike owners.
It's you who's assuming your subjective opinion is truth, shutting out all other interpretations of that ad. As a mature, secure man, I did not find that HD ad offensive, just silly ,but I can see how "snowflakes" might. And yes, you virtue signal like a snowflake.
You didn't address the connection between women and HD, you know, the objective elephant in the room. Seems they're okay with the brand's image, but you're not. Try not to melt after reading this.
You don't really need to be a marketing genius to figure out if an ad sucks or not. Anyone capable of using logic and reason can do it. In the ad I saw it was designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, like women were little more that deer being attracted to the dominate stag and all other motorcycle brands were the helpless wannabees.
That's insulting to anyone with a functioning mind. Many HD riders around here have NO problem blasting people's ear drums. Riding in giant packs and too self centered and arrogant to allow people to pass. That isn't a coincidence. I think the caveman thing is wearing thin these days and apparently that's the wagon HD is hitched to.
Good to know that ads like that appeal to you. Based on all you've said, I can see how it would be difficult for you to find a woman that would be offended by that HD-NYC ad. You'll just have to trust (or ignore) others when they tell you it's not cool with many women and men.
I never appointed myself as anything, but I did offer my opinion, and I regularly qualified my statements as MY OPINION - so your comment about me pronouncing "truth" is empty. Are you seriously defending HD execs? Wow - good luck with that. The market is judging their actions very clearly, not me. And again, I never said a thing about HD owners. Not once. Of course, you've repeatedly called me names, while I haven't responded in kind. Not once.
Snowflaking me again because I don't agree with your point of view is another classy move. If you believe you represent the typical Harley owner, I won't argue the point.
You're just another snowflake.
May as well get that out of the way.
Maybe part of HD's Rewire is to address the negativity and rein in some of the derp. I hope so. More motorcycles on the road is good for all riders, and there are a lot of Harley's out there, acting as motorcycling ambassadors, whether they want to or not. Getting the noise from all bikes under control would be a huge step in the right direction when it comes to sharing roads & trails with others.
Lest st3ryder gets confused and takes out his orange & black hanky, I said all bikes, not just Harleys. Just like coal rolling idiots managed to kick off a crackdown on their annoying hobby, loud bikes tick off the general public, and you never know when the wrong person has had enough, and they have the power to enforce changes. In my opinion, every rider should be concerned about losing access over issues like this.
Someone who loves motorcycles, as far as I can tell. The Guzzi gives you away...
Scheezus...I never said I found that ad appealing. Just that *I* wasn't "offended" by it. I thought it was silly, period. I never said all people will find that ad acceptable, only that many won't. Same can be said for beer and liquor commercials too: how dare they glorify alcohol consumption when it leads to such catastrophes on personal and societal levels? Anybody who finds those ads acceptable is an insensitive "unwoke" sexist moron. Period!!! That's more or less what you're saying about that HD ad.
The thing is, I've been reading the sputum haters like you have been proffering as industry analysis for decades now, with HD's imminent demise joyfully forecast by those who don't own HD, and have it out for them because of the outlaw image that rubs them the wrong way. Am I defending HD execs? No. Just pointing out the haters have been continually wrong about HD's future, and I'd wish they would put their energy into looking at their own brands, instead of trying to burn down HD. That's what emotionally healthy and secure people would do.
The market is not judging HD, you are. And if you want to carry on like a snowflake, own the behaviour when you're called out on it.
Let me ask...what are your anti HD posts intended to do?
It's you who has bad intentions. Not cool bro. ;-)
This comment is insulting to anybody with a functioning mind.
Just another hater. Yawnnnnn.....
Yeah, there's a wide range between snowflake and caveman. For me the answer is somewhere in between. I am surprised noise ordinances haven't been enforced by now. It's literally become a health issue.
My ears are screwed and there's a gonad for a brain guy down the road with the loudest HD I've heard. I can hear it idling blocks away. Riding by I had to put my fingers in my ears, it was painful. That encouraged him to start flailing away on his throttle like an out of control toddler.
Well, I have stopped for enough beers in enough roadside bars to know that HD does indeed appeal to a lot of women.
Is that a reason for me to buy one? Nah. By the same token, I am neither outraged by Harley nor in love with them. I am not their main customer. They know and I know it, and the bartenders know it.
The ads were horrible in their honesty. Not their truth, but their honesty in the attitude. I am not, and have never been, in the Harley scene. My brother in law was back in the 80's. I saw his photo albums showing their depraved behavior and I rode with his group once or twice. That was enough. This is 100% true - they used to have big camp outs and drag a Honda motorcycle around the field and beat it with bats. It was neanderthal behavior. And they had plenty of girlfriends. So I am not shocked by any of this. How many times have you seen a really nice woman with a loud talking neanderthal a hole? It's so common it is a cliche'.
People are not saints, it's true. But neither is this scene anything I want to join. Somewhat paradoxically, I have had good times hanging out with Harley riders and tatooed females in bars. Lots of laughs. They didn't look twice at my Bonneville, and I didn't care. I think it was viewed as nice enough but smaller and quieter than a " real bike ". Zero f@ck$ given .
To bring it back to " will Harley last" I think they are on the wrong side of history now and the tide is against this sort of thing. It makes sense on many levels to change the attitude about women.