You guys think Harley Davidson will last?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tessalino, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. Beemeup

    Beemeup 1978 R100/7

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    Yeah, there's a wide range between snowflake and caveman. For me the answer is somewhere in between. I am surprised noise ordinances haven't been enforced by now. It's literally become a health issue.

    My ears are screwed and there's a gonad for a brain guy down the road with the loudest HD I've heard. I can hear it idling blocks away. Riding by I had to put my fingers in my ears, it was painful. That encouraged him to start flailing away on his throttle like an out of control toddler.
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  2. Sal Pairadice

    Sal Pairadice Captain Obvious

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    Well, I have stopped for enough beers in enough roadside bars to know that HD does indeed appeal to a lot of women.

    Is that a reason for me to buy one? Nah. By the same token, I am neither outraged by Harley nor in love with them. I am not their main customer. They know and I know it, and the bartenders know it.

    The ads were horrible in their honesty. Not their truth, but their honesty in the attitude. I am not, and have never been, in the Harley scene. My brother in law was back in the 80's. I saw his photo albums showing their depraved behavior and I rode with his group once or twice. That was enough. This is 100% true - they used to have big camp outs and drag a Honda motorcycle around the field and beat it with bats. It was neanderthal behavior. And they had plenty of girlfriends. So I am not shocked by any of this. How many times have you seen a really nice woman with a loud talking neanderthal a hole? It's so common it is a cliche'.

    People are not saints, it's true. But neither is this scene anything I want to join. Somewhat paradoxically, I have had good times hanging out with Harley riders and tatooed females in bars. Lots of laughs. They didn't look twice at my Bonneville, and I didn't care. I think it was viewed as nice enough but smaller and quieter than a " real bike ". Zero f@ck$ given .

    To bring it back to " will Harley last" I think they are on the wrong side of history now and the tide is against this sort of thing. It makes sense on many levels to change the attitude about women.
  3. Beemeup

    Beemeup 1978 R100/7

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    So you weren't insulted?
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  4. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP Been here awhile Supporter

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    You know what's not cool, bro? Attributing all sorts of your baggage to my posts, when I never wrote anything of the sort. I've been very clear in what I've said. If you'd stop attaching all of your baggage to my words, you might have a better idea about where I'm coming from, instead of whatever you're on about.

    I have friends that ride heavy cruisers of many makes, including HD. I'd no sooner trash their bikes as I would their wives, but I tell them that I don't care for straight pipes, no matter the brand or type of bike. I don't know what you ride, and I don't care. Stay safe out there, and enjoy your ride, whatever you're riding.

    This is a discussion forum. I thought we were discussing HD and its future. You seem hellbent on turning any negative comment about the company into an insult to its customers, and you in particular. If that's your game, have fun with someone else.
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  5. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP Been here awhile Supporter

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    No doubt Harleys appeal to some women & men, both as riders and rider-adjacents. Nothing wrong with that, and to each their own. Maybe I should apologize in advance for any virtue signaling I just committed.

    I agree with your summation, and I don't think ads like the two previously mentioned will help HD last. For a culture supposedly based on respect, I didn't see a lot of that being promoted in those ads.
  6. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen Supporter

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    There are some damn funny international motorcycle commercials out there. Far funnier than anything the typical American viewer can take in. I especially like the "Born to be Blind" commercial, and the Porsche wetting itself next to a Ninja. Some of the typical cruiser attitude commercials too. The "respect" Harley commercial really played that one, but it would never be on TV here.

    Comments relative to HD or cruiser riders claiming they'd never ride a crotch rocket or a European sport touring bike, may be relative to how the shape of many American riders (beer gut) is not well suited to a tighter fitting sport/Euro bike. I have some gut myself, and still really enjoy my BMWs. But in the past two seasons I've been riding my VN1600 Vulcan Classic also, and its riding position is, ahh, much more "open" to those needing more space between themselves and the bike.
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  7. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

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    Toyota Q1 operating profits down 98%. Bad cars. Bad execs. Bad owners. Doomed. The market has spoken. ;-)

    You are not discussing. You are vaunting your opinion as facts. You are confusing your value system with truth. You are not discussing, just dissing HD. Like all other haters.

    How about constructive comments? Don't worry, I won't expect any from you, you are clearly incapable of objectivity.

    The fact is, most women riders out there ride cruiser bikes and a lot of them are on HDs. YOU are the one who has his panties in a knot about that silly commercial, not women riders who embrace the outlaw image and HD, both as riders and pillions and have already spoken with their wallets, that owning HD is okay with them, outlaw baggage included, if not desired.

    You're tilting at windmills bro.;-)
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  8. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

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    Once again, you're insulting.
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  9. Beemeup

    Beemeup 1978 R100/7

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    Irony. Look it up.
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  10. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP Been here awhile Supporter

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    Please don't associate yourself with windmills. They deserve better.

    Here's a thought: Try reading what I wrote, and respond to that, not your delusions.
    Until you demonstrate that ability, there's nothing to discuss with you.
  11. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP Been here awhile Supporter

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    Good luck with that.
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  12. Big John Sny

    Big John Sny Long timer

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    WHen I was talking about diversification, I was thinking on a bigger scale than just other motorcycles. Due to the realities of current American manufacturing, I don’t see them ever being able to build cost competitive “budget” motorcycles. Also, any attempt to build overseas budget bikes has not been very successful for them.
    The real problem with this being, luxury vehicles of any kind is a very turbulent market. Since motorcycles in the US is really considered a toy by most instead of transportation, I see motorcycles as a whole falling into this category to some extent, so even a diversified motorcycle portfolio would only be a crutch and not a true fix. Unless they can some how tap into the growing motorcycle segments in Asia. I could see this being a challenge. (Although the Harley dealer in Shanghai did seem to be booming when I was there. Very surprising since they have to pay such high motorcycle taxes there)
    When I was talking diversification I was thinking bigger umbrella. Not necessarily for the technology growth (although it might not be a bad thing) as much for, riding a different point in the economic wave. Something that thrives while luxury products are in decline. Potentially the synergy could be in marketing, distribution, or warehousing instead of technology, for example.

    Although the AMF years were not successful, my understanding is that they did bring structure into Harley that isn’t still in place. They brought in R&D that is very evident even now in current product, and most importantly brought in assembly line manufacturing processes that improved cost structure, and, even though there was some quality lapses that occurred with the growing pains going from a totally hand built bike to a line built product, without that change Harley would likely not exist today.
    Of course, I could be wrong since I wasn’t there.
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  13. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

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    AMF sucked out every last penny they could from HD and invested almost nothing in retooling, r&d, which effected quality and reliability re the Shovel Heads of the seventies. The only reason they survived were the dyed in the wool Harley buyers, and the development of the Evo engine.

    Harley has survived in the past by concentrating on what they do best, big Vtwin American cruisers/touring bikes, and divesting, i.e. Buell/MV Augusta, not diversification of product lines,or holdings. Seems their heading that way again. Harley Davidson is loved in up and coming Asian markets. Did big tobacco worry about paying of 380 billion dollar fines in the US? No, because they had the Asian market to bail them out. if that detestable industry can survive based on the strength of their Asian markets, maybe an American icon can too. And really, they will survive one way or another. We haven't even mentioned their t-shirt business. :-)
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  14. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

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    I think you need to reread what you wrote. Once again, you don't discuss, just condescend. You're right, with your attitude we have nothing to discuss until you how did you phrase it?, "demonstrate that ability" to accept you are a Harley hater with little to add to any discussion.
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  15. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

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    Really? You think irony is at play here? I just see you, somebody who calls others stupid for not agreeing with him, and somehow, when it's pointed out, it's ironic?

    Look up moronic, as it better suits your argument.
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  16. stubmw

    stubmw some what aloof

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    Who the hell knows if Harley will survive. I've had a couple of Harleys also owned 3 BMW a few Jap bikes and even a couple of Urals. My thoughts on Harley are that they build just as good a motorcycle as anyone else and have since the EVO motor in 1984. They are what they are, low tech cruisers and baggers. Their fit and finish is top notch, still they are over priced, maybe way over priced for what they are.

    Also Harley is a one trick pony, past attempts at even a hint of diversification in the line have been disastrous. The Buell, V-rod and Street models prove that. I lay that failure at their and their dealers feet. Like red-headed step children those models were semi-hidden in the back of show rooms and anyone inquiring about one was told "You need to get a real bike". No wonder they failed.

    Finally acts of douche-baggery. The culture and Harley's marketing for the past 40 years has basically been "if you're riding anything other than a Harley both you and your motorcycle are worthless pieces of shit". Obviously this has alienated large swaths of the MC community so much so that many have a small emotional investment in seeing Harley fail. Maybe they make it maybe they won't.
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  17. Big John Sny

    Big John Sny Long timer

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    Funny, That is not what I have read about the AMF years. I always read they infused tons of money at a time that Harley was dying due to the fierce competition. That Harley was making quality bikes, but too few at too high of manufacturing costs and were losing money. I also read the money and structure infusion, although fought hard against, is what has ultimately saved the company.

    Just the excerpt from this book seems to say the same thing. https://books.google.com/books/about/Well_Made_in_America.html?id=CxcCAAAACAAJ

    The major negative I have always read about AMF was that they pushed for more production volume than the company could support and then further hurt relationship with the laborers and the end result was poor build quality.

    This was poor for Harleys image, and the relationship with AMF got bad and they both wanted to separate ways, but many designs came out of the relationship, including the evo, and these took off after the companies had parted ways.
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  18. phughes

    phughes Long timer

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    Usually they meant to check them for corrosion. The same is true for Concours forums. Every time there is an issue involving electronics, or codes being thrown, bike dying, etc., the advice is to check the battery connections and grounds, most importantly to clean them, and nine times out of ten, that solves the problem. It generally has nothing to do with the connections being loose, but instead having corrosion.
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  19. Beemeup

    Beemeup 1978 R100/7

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    Please post where I called someone stupid for not agreeing with me. You see words that aren't there and you don't see words that are there.
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  20. Beemeup

    Beemeup 1978 R100/7

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    My brother had a V-rod. He rode on back, being pretty much a novice. That was a very fine bike. The power was like a rheostat, turn the throttle and you had juice. He weighed about 180 and the machine handled just fine. It didn't make sense to me that it didn't catch on.
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