You guys think Harley Davidson will last?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tessalino, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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  2. phughes

    phughes Long timer Supporter

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    Nor do I. I have been seeing a lot of advertising for the Livewire lately.
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  3. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen Supporter

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    Certainly not just HD engineering/marketing alone. It is interesting that the Harley market is so deeply ingrained in the identity of the "typical" Harley that to date no alternate Harley has been accepted.
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  4. Traxx

    Traxx Taxation is Theft Supporter

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    Is this your channel?
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  5. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard Instagram @motopossum

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    Hahaha, no but I dig it! I have 2 channels that I seldom utilize right now, MotoPossum and The Gingerbeard Man. One's for moto stuff and the other for skating.
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  6. Traxx

    Traxx Taxation is Theft Supporter

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    Is that you Nancy? How is Tonya doing?
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  7. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard Instagram @motopossum

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    Well, the knee has seen better days...

    Eat your heart out Tonya!! :lol3

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  8. Traxx

    Traxx Taxation is Theft Supporter

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    I’m still mad that they kicked me out of my own play house after the theater incident.
  9. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard Instagram @motopossum

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    :lol3 Ouch!
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  10. Oilhed

    Oilhed MarkF Supporter

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    I have one and its not the same. Those footboards are barely mids. And the tractor seat isn't that high and you cant but your feet straight down,
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  11. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Nice, until you're not.

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    Great observation. As much as I believed in their former, riskier "More Roads" strategy, I think it's fair to say that the marketplace has not been kind to any attempt by Harley to depart from its formula since at least the post-AMF management buyout.

    It reminds me a little of the situation Porsche was in twenty years ago. Despite the occasional foray into water cooled, front-engined cars, they got nothing but hate and modest sales for anything they built that wasn't a 911. By the late 90s, they were almost bankrupt. What saved them was not a series of incremental steps beyond the formula, but a radical and unapologetic giant leap... an SUV, co-developed with VW. I was a 911 owner when the Cayenne came out, and the hate for that thing would melt your face. Soon after, the Cayenne was 70% of Porsche's volume (with many of its sales to current Porsche owners), and the company was saved. It's a bitch having an ultra-conservative owner community, and asking their permission to evolve doesn't usually work very well. What's missing here is guts, not engineering.
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  12. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    But, as we discovered, those alternate Harleys were not good, so why would they be accepted? Why do we expect Harley products to be accepted when they are not good just for the sake of being different, while we fully expect any other brand to fail when they ship no-good products?
  13. Traxx

    Traxx Taxation is Theft Supporter

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    I am thinking the Live wire and Pan American is just that leap. The Livewire hasn’t hit that mark, but lets see what the PA will do. If it is even close to the competition in performance and price, it will sell. That can be a big turning point for HD. Combine the Livewire and PA with at Long way up ish bike and ride the show.
  14. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Nice, until you're not.

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    It's true... if the PanAm was somehow such an excellent motorcycle that it overcame all the pre-loaded hate for it, that would change the game.
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  15. Traxx

    Traxx Taxation is Theft Supporter

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    Really the only Hate I see for the Pan Am is from the existing Harley Haters. The HD community young and old seems to really be into it.
  16. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen Supporter

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    I agree. But I maintain HD missed an opportunity with the V-Rod engine, not the entire bike. Harley saddled a great non-standard Harley engine into a fairly Harley common format, against its own market strong products, even some parallel products like the Sportster. HD produced a bike of limited appeal to the non-Harley people, and too similar to the other HD products for the Harley lovers to accept.

    Harley made a proven bike in the FXR chassis, numerous magazines reported it as the best Harley chassis in decades, though costly to produce. Harley had a class leading engine later in the V-Rod. If Harley had put the V-Rod engine into an updated FXR style chassis instead of the weird, long wheelbase, strange ergos, raked out forks V-Rod chassis (a chassis more like the Nova project bike), Harley could have captured a segment of the sport-touring market with a unique American product well suited to the wide open roads and mountain riding at the same time. But the V-Rod would only ever be the very limited appeal V-Rod as given to the market by Harley, far too limited in scope. Once that V-Rod engine in a proper application established itself, bikes like the Street, Bronx and Panamerica would have a market to grab.
  17. tlub

    tlub Long timer Supporter

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    The husband of a co-worker of mine was/is the chief engineer on this, and has been there for several years. He has designed bike part/components/accessories all his career.
    I'm surprised at the rear light location, which could be blocked by panniers. He certainly rides bikes with panniers, as does his wife. No rack for luggage or pannier mounting, or fenders. All e-bike riders I know ride in all sorts of crappy weather, and go shopping with them, so I suspect production will address both issues.
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  18. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    Ask him what’s with the tiny battery? This does not look like it could have usable range.
  19. neanderthal

    neanderthal globeriding wannabe

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    I would argue that the Boxster was the bridge that got them to that point. But I wouldn't fight anybody over it.

    The shared costs of the Cayenne combined with the much higher pricepoint versus its VW Touareg and Audi Q5 cousins, meant heaps of cash for Porsche with minimal outlay.
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  20. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Nice, until you're not.

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    Because who doesn't love a pedant like me... that's a commonly held piece of revisionist history. The Boxster came out in '96, and did well compared to the 993 and the 996 it shared its front end with. But for sheer numbers and unit margins, the Cayenne was what got them out of the hole. The Cayenne raised Porsche's profits by 47% in a single year after its launch. To this day, they sell roughly double the number of SUVs as cars. In 2005, Porsche sold a bit over 7000 Boxsters in the US, and that number has dwindled ever since. By contrast, that same year, they sold just less than 14,000 more profitable Cayennes.

    I wouldn't bother being such a dick about this except that I think it's relevant. The Boxster was a great car, but timid from a marketing point of view... a cheap alternative to 911s that other Porsche owners sneered at and salesmen tried to upsell from. The Cayenne was something else altogether, comparable to nothing else in the line, and lots of them ended up sharing driveways with 911s. Sometimes, the big move is safer than the incremental move.

    Thanks for humouring me.
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