You guys think Harley Davidson will last?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tessalino, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer Supporter

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    Let me make another observation that pertains to this discussion. It seems like most of the people on this forum tend to prefer riding alone. Just look at any discussion involving group riding and most of the people who participate in that discussion are against it. So the people participating in perfect line tend to be against group rides.

    From my experience, most of the riders I actually know like to ride with others. I have also talked to a lot people who bought a motorcycle and eventually gave it up because none of their friends rode. I think that there are a lot of people out their who prefer to do things with others and that is one of the reasons Harley has been so successful. Buy a Harley and you are now a member of a club. Dress like everyone else in the club and now everyone knows you are a member of that club.

    I'm one of those people who likes to go on group rides. I can understand why people are attracted to the Harley "lifestyle" even If I personally have chosen to go in another direction. I have gone on group rides where over half of the riders where on Harley's.....and I was on a scooter:eek7 I enjoyed it because these where relatively spirited rides on fun country roads. Not at all what you would expect on a Harley group ride.

    My point is, Harley has done a lot of things right. They need to keep some of the things that made them successful and change some things stay successful in the future. All these opinions of impending doom are just that, opinions. We really don't know how the Harley management will react to the future.
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  2. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer Supporter

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    I still see more Harleys on the road that any other brand. Harley is far from dead.
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  3. Amphib

    Amphib A mind is like a parachute....

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    Times change, fads come and go. I've always been more attracted to classic. When I had my harley, I wore what I wore off the bike and to work..... T-shirt, jeans, work boots... a leather jacket in cooler weather. I never thought or worried about what I looked like. I wore what I had..... If I looked like a pirate, it was not intentional.

    What are the requirements to be or look like a pirate?
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  4. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer Supporter

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    From what I have observed, many Harley riders deliberately dress to look like "bikers". It's not just jeans, t shirts and work boots. When I see a group of Harley riders they are often all dressed very similarly. Lots of black leather, Harley t-shirts, minimal helmets, leather vests. They don't look like they just got off work and added a leather jacket. But, that's not all Harley riders. Some dress like you did. Some wear modern textile gear and FF helmets.

    Again, I'm not judging, just observing. Dressing alike is not just a Harley thing. Back many years ago when I was a member of the HSTA I would look around and see almost everyone wearing an Aerostich, often with a white full face helmet. On a sportbike ride you may see everyone wearing full leathers......with knee pucks. Go to a motocross track and guess what? Why do people feel they need to wear an "adventure" style helmet just because they have an adventure bike?

    My point is that many people are sociable and like to feel like they belong to a group. Some people follow fashion trends and some don't.

    T-shirt, jeans and work boots? That's what I normally wear when I'm just out for a short ride. I just wear a mesh or textile jacket instead of leather but years ago I wore a leather jacket as well.
  5. oldgrizz

    oldgrizz Long timer Supporter

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    I bought a Yamaha that had been traded in on a Harley at a Harley dealership in British Columbia
  6. oldgrizz

    oldgrizz Long timer Supporter

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    Other manufactures are hard on their dealers as well. When talking to a KTM dealer he told me he had not ordered any street bikes because KTM would make him take models that he could not sell. He said he had a bunch of Super Duke and Super Duke GT models that don't sell in his area.
    He had wanted to order 2 Super Adventure models but he was told he would have to take more than the 2 plus Super Duke models.
  7. PeterTrocewicz

    PeterTrocewicz Been here awhile

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    Maybe you should learn something about motorcycles and about people before you post. I was responding to your post about v- twins which showed a.total lack of knowledge on the subject.
    The original Africa Twin, which was muched loved? Liquid cooled V2.
    Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, KTM and Aprilia have successfully used L/C V2s in sport bikes. I can add Buell.
    Aprillia, KTM and Suzuki, as well as Honda have all used L/C V2s in Adventure type bikes.
    As I stated, V2s do have their advantages.
    How do you know that it won't handle? Have you ridden it? Read any road tests? And where did I say the strategy is a winner? I think its a good start.
    I've just broken one of my own rules: 'never argue with a fool, they'll try to drag you down to their level and try to beat you with experience'.
  8. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    No, I'm going on third-party reviews and comments. Also by eyeballing how low the pipes are with those baggers.

    Remember, the question was, do we think H-D will last.

    I've answered, and why I think it. You're not going to prove an opinion wrong.

    I'll never buy one of their offerings. Because they have zero appeal to me.

    THAT has caused me to examine why, and whether they could change anything.

    And I don't see anything that could get me in as a buyer. Nope, they'd have to offer a different-format bike at a different price level, and not be selling a brand or lifestyle.

    And apparently plenty of other potential buyers see it similarly.

    Am I wrong? Lot of people think so. Angrily so.

    Maybe some others should be examining, why our rejecting these machines makes them so angry. You cannot bully someone into liking something they do not.

    And you're not going to sell the product by telling people, as some posts above, that "YOU DON'T KNOW SCHITT!"

    What you'll do is have them leave the discussion.

    Carry on, mates...
  9. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Sure. I have the money.

    But I cannot wisely spare the money.

    There's a difference between being able to buy something, and being able to afford it. As in, what percentage of the savings or monthly budget the purchase consumes.

    Ever hear of someone being "house poor?" Ever work with someone, maybe a modest paycheck, but he has a very-expensive car, and no money for a vacation? Nothing saved?
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  10. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    I notice the same trends around me IE riders tend to dress similar to their group, Dual Spotters dress like the most of them do, no shit sports bike riders look almost like track day, adventure rider types tend to look similar in style etc etc.
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  11. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    What you don't seem to be able to grasp is that many of those who think you're dead wrong don't even have a Harley, they're just more open minded and observant.

    Another thing you don't seem to grasp is that many folks like myself who don't own a Harley or think much of the pirate thing find your constant biased stereotyping of Harley riders inaccurate and offense. Don't confuse disgust with anger.
  12. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    But their dress serves a function, no?
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  13. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Inactive User

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    And, if I might presume to add, don’t confuse this thread with a civil exchange of perspectives.
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  14. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I would expect animated discussion when opinions are at exact opposites, but that's no excuse for propagating stereotypes, and blaming them for ones personal issues.
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  15. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    I'm confused? Because I'm not part of the Pirate Party?

    The pirate party isn't an issue in the end. It's the reason for the LACK of appeal to many, of H-D products.

    It's like this: Let me try and make a correlation. You have automobiles - including SUVs and light trucks. It's not like there's a "best" vehicle - there's different kinds for different needs and aspirations.

    A young tech millionaire who likes performance cars, is not going to be interested in anything Cadillac makes. And if Cadillac tried to make a sporty sedan...well, they did, the Catara. Didn't sell.

    An old duffer who likes heavy luxury cars, is not going to be interested in anything Mazda sells. No MATTER the price tag or even J.D. Powers ratings.

    And a guy who has a $12/hour job and drives to work ten miles each day...is not going to want a Ford F-150 Duramax with a lift kit and leather seats. No matter how low the interest rate - it doesn't fit with his needs.

    That's where we're at. What H-D is selling, is not the needs/desires/aspirations of a growing percentage of riders. In my observation, of course.

    And all the screaming and foul names hurled at me, changes nothing there. There's nothing in those stores that I even remotely desire. And at this point, changing the marketing angle will be as hard as Studebaker copying a Thunderbird or Cadillac copying a BMW.

    Very unlikely to proceed.

    (let the abuse resume...)
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  16. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Screaming? Foul names? Seriously?:dunno
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  17. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    Do you apply for jobs that you have no experience with too? The question may have been "will Harley last" but you posted "in a bike that can't corner worth a schitt?" Just because a motorcycle isn't a GP replica doesn't mean it's incapable. Go ride one once. You may not want to buy it but you'll be surprised..............if you're honest.
  18. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer Supporter

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    I have ridden with some guys on Harleys that rode curvy roads at a pace much faster than I would ever expect from a Harley. They would embarrass more than a few sport bike riders. The fact is that some Harleys have virtually no cornering clearance while others are much better. Some Harley riders can't ride for shit while others are extremely competent. Too many people get caught up with stereotypes and just assume all riders or motorcycles of a certain brand fit the stereotype.
  19. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    Agreed. However that goes for virtually any brand in one way or another.
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  20. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    You can drive a Cadillac fast, too.

    That's not what it's designed for.

    Do we really want to search the Toob of Ewe to find a Harley dragging pipes or bags?

    As I tried to show, to - I guess - deaf ears...these bikes sell to different people with different interests and aspirations. Is a Versys X-300 "better" than a BMW K1600?

    Does it not depend on what the buyer expects to do with it?

    I've said my piece on where H-D products miss the mark. For me. My point is, that is also the reaction of other people.

    Not "whether someone can corner fast with one." Yeah, posing with bad-looking bikes isn't limited to one brand...but the paradigms surrounding some other brands are more timeless than some cultivated by H-D.

    Cars again. Cadillacs, in the 1950s, were marketed as the car of choice for youngish society women. Ad drawings showed these Junior League types, bedecked in formal gowns and elbow-length gloves, being assisted out of the driver's seat by valets and doormen.

    Does Cadillac still try to sell that image? Would they succeed if they tried? The only Cadillac selling in big numbers now, is the badge-engineered Suburban knock-off; and it's being sold to MILF-types who want to be Lara Croft.

    Even, to some extent, staid old Cadillac was able to change their marketing paradigm. Not entirely successful; and as I said, and tried to show why, I don't think it will work here, either.