You guys think Harley Davidson will last?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tessalino, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. Oilhed

    Oilhed MarkF Supporter

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    Same here on the east coast. Although I think it's a small percentage of Harley's currently owned that I see on the road. I know a lot of people that own a Harley and rarely if ever ride. It's like the SCUBA & Fishing gear in the back of my garage.
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  2. Traxx

    Traxx Been here awhile

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    https://autowise.com/2019-cadillac/
    http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/cadillac/

    Slow Caddie, LMAO.

    I'll ask again, when was the last time you were in a HD dealership? You have a lot of misconceptions, I did as well up until about a year ago when they started advertising for the Livewire. I stopped in and it was actually a pleasant experience. I eventually ended up on a sportster roadster, that is totally stock and somewhat quiet. I think about the same volume as my Triumph Trophy's 1215 triple, just a different tone.

    F150 Duramax with leather seats? I am hoping that you were being sarcastic there.

    I have a feeling that you are more than slightly disconnected with the "Regular Joe"
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  3. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I believe the national average for all motorcycle riders is 3000 miles a year. The average person here on ADV doesn't represent the "normal" rider.
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  4. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Why would I go to a store to look at items I have no interest in buying?

    For the record, I was at the H-D shop in March. Selling a bike, which in this state, requires a notary stamp on the signature of owner for transfer. We did it on Saturday and this shop had a notary in there.

    Good on them. Good community relations.

    Someone who's not interested in Italian sports cars, would do well to not visit a Ferrari showroom. It annoys the staff and he benefits nothing. Likewise, this H-D store - all the clothes and luggage and farkle for sale there - just nothing for me.

    Okay, you don't agree with my observations, so they're misconceptions.

    That, too, is not worth discussing. I've given my reasoning.

    No. I was being witheringly HOSTILE there. Because when I see about half of those stupid diesel trucks, it's through a smoke-screen of "Rolled Coal."

    I was never anti-truck, anti-SUV, until this current mania for huge, hulking diesel trucks with nearly-six-figure price tags, entered in...and with it, the fascination of being able to blow soot on command by a toggle switch.

    But even those who don't. Any time I see some jerkwater on the road, driving erratically...way too slow, straddling lines, signalling halfway through a turn...six moves back and forth to park...almost ALWAYS, he's driving one of those TRUCKS. It might as well be a **STUPID** badge that drivers wear.

    And your feelings are your feelings. You can take me off your Christmas-card list, if it makes you feel better.
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  5. Traxx

    Traxx Been here awhile

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    I guess what I was getting at is if you are going to throw out an example at least make it realistic and factual.

    The escalade is not the best selling caddy, try the CTX crossover suv and if you want to go fast then check out the CTS if you want to go faster caddy makes something for that 2.

    There is no F150 Duramax. F150 is a 1/2ton gas or hybrid light duty truck. Duramax is a engine made by Izuzu in a 3/4 ton or larger GM truck and the source of your hurt feelings.
  6. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Thank you.

    It's not something I care about enough to even Google. For the simple reason, I have zero need for a large truck. And if I did, it would be gas-powered - because the new computer-controlled gas engines get better fuel economy than the newly-desmogged and DEF-strangled diesels, and with comparable power.

    The kind of truck I need - one-ton curb weight, half-ton capacity, six-foot bed...and two seats...apparently our keepers in government don't think it's appropriate. So they demand impossible fuel mileage standards, and so such trucks stay in Japan or Australia.

    Yeah, I guess you could say I'm really out of touch. Saving money, not spending it all...and not liking these wonderful monster trucks that every man-jack has wet dreams of, nights, until he buys one...and nightmares over the payments, after...not only that, I like metric bikes. Yeah, I don't know schitte from Shinola, fer sure...
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  7. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    I dunno. If you needed a little city car, like a Fiesta, would you go test-drive a 12-passenger van? Why?

    I not only was qualified for the last three jobs I applied for, I had FRA certification cards to prove it. And the reason I retired early was I was medically disqualified. So, no. I don't extend beyond my competence.

    Surely you can see the connection between "Will Harley Last" and "can't corner worth a schitt." Because performance matters to buyers today. More than in the past - today, an 80-hp bike is considered a slow bike, marginal.

    As with other makers of vehicles, IF H-D has improved their road-ability (neat trick with 750-pound wet weight) and increased potential lean...the word isn't getting out and it's not being demonstrated by owners that potential buyers might see.

    You know what they see. And many of them are turned off by it.
  8. Gestalt

    Gestalt Been here awhile

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    I am a Brit and very proud of what Triumph has done and that Norton are still in business, HD however are the quintessential motorbike, yes for sure they are hurting and I question their current designers as many are to be honest pig ugly. That said some are truly beautiful, HD is a premium brand, this attempt to make cheap bikes in India for instance I doubt will end well, remember they have tried this before in an Italian plant. The bike market is not what it was probably true but money is tight, the market periodically jumps about but the one constant people get older, people that get older or a % have spare cash, they will always buy HD's as long as the are seen to be a premium product as will the wealthy young . Triumph and Ducati both now manufacture bikes in Thailand, but not budget bikes, maybe HD could do the same for the Asia market to get around the import duties that made it impossible for me to buy one in Thailand were my holiday/soon to be retirement home is. HD will be fine I believe, it may not be as big but I doubt many of the current manufacturers will be with the Chinese getting in on it with initially former Italian brands, which are sure to be followed by more. CNC and robots have leveled up the playing field, between the Chinese and the Indians and possible more to come only the western and Japanese premium brands are likely to last in the long run against what is largely a different customer base looking for fun on a budget.
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  9. Traxx

    Traxx Been here awhile

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    If you don't even care enough to google, then why put it out there as facts. That is flat out dishonest.
    I don't give a rats @ if you don't know, just cut the lies out.
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  10. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    I didn't put it out there as fact; I was taking a tangent. It wasn't about trucks and certainly not BRANDS of trucks.

    I just know when I'm in a traffic clog and I see an eight-foot-tall truck, and hear a turbo spool up...to make sure I'm upwind.

    Edit: Confusing Dupa-Max with Eco-Fart, or whatever, is now LYING?
  11. Gone Troppo

    Gone Troppo Somewhat bemused observer

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    no
  12. Traxx

    Traxx Been here awhile

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    Some of yours
    The only Cadillac selling in big numbers now, is the badge-engineered Suburban knock-off; and it's being sold to MILF-types who want to be Lara Croft.
    Any more than they'd have gone to Lincoln for an electric CAR. No, they'd either go to Tesla, the startup, or to one of the established large economy-car makers. Nissan or now VW
    It's not something I care about enough to even Google.

    If you want to imagine numbers and such just say so. I was trying to take it all in with a grain of salt and put it down to opinion, I can respect an opinion. Making shit up to support your rant, not so much.
    Bless your heart.
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  13. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Inactive User

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    Step back and consider the illogic of a view that says, “Harley won’t last because I don’t personally like their products or the people who buy them.”

    Using this guideline, I have to conclude that McDonald’s is doomed, and I should invest all my retirement savings in Scottish distilleries and Fender guitars.

    It’s absurd. Don’t waste your breath. You tried.
  14. shoeb

    shoeb Long timer

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    Medium term survival looks pretty safe, as they're a huge company with at least a core base of loyal customers. I can't imagine them going bust within 10-20 years based on this. Heck, their T-shirt sales could probably keep them alive that long.

    Long term survival will likely depend most on adaptation to new technologies, like EVs. This is because most first-world countries, where HD sells best, are bringing in more and more legislation to prevent new ICE vehicle sales. Much of Europe, for example, is banning new ICE cars within the next 20 years or so, and it's hard to imagine bikes lasting an awful lot longer. With this in mind, HD seem to be trying as hard as anyone, so I see no reason to count them out. If anything, they're ahead of most major manufacturers, even though the Livewire has its limitations.

    Mind you, if the Japanese finally come out with more than concept E-bikes and they blow HD (and almost by definition, Zero) out of the water, these assumptions could be rendered worthless. Too much will be changing over the next few decades to make any confident forecasts.
  15. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    Buh bye now...............
  16. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    That's not my point. I'm saying, logically, they no longer have appeal.

    I don't like the image they're selling, but that's unimportant. What does matter is that I've got a large part of the market agreeing with my read on it.

    And I've tried to take apart, why. THAT is why all the examples and specifics of what some posters here, take as "hating Harleys."

    The market has shifted. If it had not, we'd not see a fall in used-Harley prices; we'd not see the very-expensive development of new models.

    Now, in understanding why a product or manufacturing line no longer has appeal...one can explore why that is so, or one can just start screaming, all the louder: "BRAND X IS THE BEST!!"

    Until there's not enough sales to keep the bills paid.

    Harley isn't gonna fail because I don't like them.

    It's gonna fail because long ago they moved from focusing on product, to selling image; and now, that singular, cultivated image isn't selling well. And now their name is connected to that image of do-rags and sleeveless vests and noise and glue-on-tattoos.

    THAT is why they will fail. Because their name has negative connotations to the younger, affluent potential buyers.
  17. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Don't forget Harley Davidson, and the people who ride them also responsible for him being the victim of road raging motorists, and being harassed by police....

    Aren't you ashamed of yourself.......Certainly its your fault, not the one common denominator. :dirtdog
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  18. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    My mistake.

    I didn't know this was a "Three Cheers for THE-BEST-MOTORCYCLE brand - THE COMPANY!!" thread
  19. Amphib

    Amphib A mind is like a parachute....

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    (also including the perspective of previous posts and your own threads) I don't mean this as an attack or to be insulting, but I don't think the world is out to get you like you think. It's amazing what a change in perspective can do...... I'm not talking motorcycles here. I'm talking about how you see the world around you and your interactions with others.

    I'm no shrink and I haven't walked in your shoes, but you really come off as having a grudge about many things...... That you are a perpetual victim. I just say this as an observation and it doesn't have to be this way.
  20. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Inactive User

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    All you have to do is explain how the numbers and how Harley is investing in growth line up with your narrative. That’s it.

    Otherwise, your posts really feel like some kind of misdirected rage. I don’t like Harleys either, but I know a good business when I see one.