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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by 81forest, Feb 18, 2015.
I guess you read as much snark in my reply that I read in yours.
I mean, I don't think yours was accidental though!
Good point, I guess it was a case of Matching Energy, or matching Perceived energy.
As awesome as it is to get to talk to folks from everywhere, it is often hard to judge the intent or attitude of a post.
Yeah, English doesn't translate too well into the internet; too much is derived from verbal tone.
My point is simply that lots of people are speaking as if that argument's been made, but I can't actually see where it was. If someone HAS claimed riders shouldn't be free to buy these bikes, I'd be 100% behind you.
Take the OP: the title assumes the argument has been made, but the interviewee quoted says no such thing. He just says how their excess power for their purpose makes them easy to legislate against. Which he's right about; France tried it already (unsuccessfully).
Didn't Germany impose a 100hp limit on bikes?...then again they also championed catalytic converters on bikes too.
Back when I was a young G.I. and a canyon squid, we would sit upright as much as possible (unless in the loving arms of a NorCal curve) to try and make it *look* like we're just out "sport touring".
I had a hell of a time getting used to staying tucked in once I had numbers on the bike and on a racetrack.
I'm just astonished at how good bikes have become and require so little from the aftermarket, aside from anodized farkles. It's nice to be able to purchase that sort of performance off of a showroom floor, from a geek's perspective, but there is just so much potential that can't be realized *responsibly* on the street.
The most entertaining street bike for sporting purposes in my riding career? 1974 RD200.
The idea of a European limit was floated back in the late '80's when there were already a few bikes putting out ~140 Hp but nothing from Europe in that class. Nothing came of it and the only model I am aware of that was was actually designed with such a limit in mind was the Yamaha GTS-1000, which took the mighty 136Hp FZR1000 engine, fuel injected it and neutered it in the process.
There was another threat to ban high speed motorcycles in the late 90's but it was then more about limiting top speed, rather than horsepower. Nothing came of that either, once the major manufacturers started voluntarily limiting their fastest bikes to 300Km/h - an agreement which seems to have fallen by the wayside with no consequences. Now that there are many high end sportscars with top speeds over 200mph and 600+Hp is almost passe', it's hard to imagine how a motorcycle-only limit would be justified.
France did limit motorcycle horsepower to 100hp in the 80s, until a few years ago.
In the mid nineties a German member of the EU commission, Martin Bangemann suggested including a 100hp EU wide limit as part of the process of harmonising the way power was measured from motorbikes across EU countries. He based his reasoning on a report from 1989 by a German research group called BAST. Another report by the Dutch Road Vehicles Research Group (TNO) strongly contradicted the findings of the BAST report and led to the 100hp limit being dropped. In theory at least, the French ban was in contradiction of the basic principle of the EU single market.
The big three car manufacturers in Germany in theory had a gentlemans agreement in the 80s/90s capping top speed to 155mph, but in practice later cars were electronically capped at point of sale to pay lip service to the agreement but also had the option of being delimited by buyers. I think this also affected bikes like the BMW K1 in the late 80s, which is why BMW were experimenting with aerodynamic bodywork.
Why is there no rush to limit HP in cars? You have new 800 HP muscle cars and 1000+HP super cars that weigh a lot more than bikes and thus have the potential to do a lot more damage to others than 450 lb Supersports.
Law-makers do not have the spine to cross the people with the money to buy 1000+ Hp cars - not even in Europe.
Also, a 1000 HP car costs a fortune. So, ther are very few of them and the owners are very careful. A 200 hp motorcycle can be had on CL for a $4000 and there are hundreds of thousands of them.....any 16 years old kid can get one.
But 300HP cars are dime a dozen.
The difference is, the average person can probably survive driving a 800 HP car, its much less likely with a 200 HP bike.
Hmmmm... I don' t think that is necessarily true... Do you mean in the event of a "crash?" At speed? Is it more prone to crashing because of the HP? I'd not wager a bet that way. Anecdotally, I've probably seen more wrecked Hellcats and the like than Hayabusa/ZX14/S1000RR's... But again, without statistics, I'm just talking in the wind...
Not a 300HP car one can buy for cheap.
I am picking my new toy up on Tuesday. A 2008 ZX14 with just over 2000 miles. I bought it sight unseen, and boy howdy, you should have heard the wailing over the phone at the dealership when I demanded they remove three spark plugs and weld over the holes! 50 ram air horsepower baby.....50!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've seen where Kawasaki has bought into Bimota and there are plans to build a Bimota Tesi 2 with a Kawasaki H2 engine. 300 hp is here.
2000 miles! Wow...
A most fortuitous event...I had my brother go and look at a Hayabusa at a dealer 6 hours away with 26000 KMs on and while he was checking it out, they rolled this on to the floor as a fresh trade. Right place, right time and all that.