Zero SR/F

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by WDG, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. folmonty

    folmonty twins make perfect moto music Supporter

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    Couple weeks back my experience was the same only the bike had a dealer mode set and asked that I leave it there. It performed outstanding making me wonder what was left? Pretty certain my next bike will be an EV. Now just ramping up on the technology and things other riders are experiencing. For me it's a toy and not a transportation necessity. The quietness was intoxicating, power amazing, smoothness enjoyable. Not dealing with oil, fuel and coolant a breath of fresh air.

    Hope with the advent of the SR/F they update the DSR to a similar level. Zero is an interesting story. Wishing them much success!
    Shaolin likes this.
  2. timblanch

    timblanch Adventurer

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    Yes, I installed a 40 A circuit breaker and 40 A wire for my 30 A Versacharger. The 80% derate is rarely mentioned and is a source of some confusion as we babble about charging power. Tim
    folmonty likes this.
  3. kiwial

    kiwial Allweatherrider

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    That source if confusion is only one out of many and they come partly from a lack of knowledge about a new technology.
    But my main gripe is the confusion that comes from websites and reviews not disclosing the whole truth, even when they do know, to please the manufacturer.
    That was my point about the 12kW charging potential of the SR/F, because it was compared to other EM's, as if it was possible ON the road (charge to 95% in 60min) in the US and I wanted to be hundert percent sure, to be able to clarify that point when it is mentioned.
    (The same with the HD Livewire where only one out of many websites mentioned the fact that the lack of L2 charging possibility was actually an issue)
  4. folmonty

    folmonty twins make perfect moto music Supporter

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    kiwial, you've got a countryman that goes by newzeroland who seems to be a Zero guru. Do you know of him? Haven't seen him here on ADV but he's got a blog, Facebook and bunch of detailed YouTube vids. He's the most resourceful Zero customer out there IMHO. Have also heard of significant distribution and parts supply issues in NZ among other places. This is a small company dealing with a major supply and demand issue currently. That will have it's issues for sure.

    I'm pretty excited about owning a EV some day soon before it's too late in my riding career. Hopefully sooner than later! Enjoying the discussion about charging and all things EV. Keep it coming!
    voltsxamps and kiwial like this.
  5. kiwial

    kiwial Allweatherrider

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    Sam Baker, he is an American living in NZ.
    http://newzeroland.blogspot.com/?m=1
    (There is newer videos of his if you Google 'newzeroland...')
    .
    His name on the electricmotorcycleforum is 'mistasam'
    http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=7440
    .
    ...and so one thing leads to another. He has ordered a Lighning Strike and has some news...see Lighning Strike thread or the contents in the above link.
    I haven't watched his videos yet but I think we're coming to the stage with ZERO where there shouldn't be any mayor warranty issues anymore and having to send back parts (battery etc.) from NZ, which would be a major pita (No dealer here).
  6. Ray R

    Ray R Long timer Supporter

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    I went to my local dealer and took a look at one over the weekend. It seems like a really nice bike. Solid components and good fit & finish. A few niggles for me: 1) At 6'4" and 60yrs old, I need more distance between the seat and pegs. I'd get the seat modified by Don Weber at Mr Ed's Moto. 2) I'd want to lower the pegs an inch or two. The pegs look to be pretty conventional, so I don't think I'd have any trouble finding some kit that would work. Any ideas? 3) That license plate holder/frame hanging off the swingarm would have to go. Does anyone know if tail-tidy is coming out with anything?
    If Zero comes out with a DSR/F, that might be the ticket for me.
    E-luke likes this.
  7. Cataract2

    Cataract2 Where to?

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    Only other thing I want if they came out with that is CCS DCFC charging option. True fast charging to get that battery up to 80% or more in 30 minutes.
    E-luke likes this.
  8. E-luke

    E-luke Been here awhile

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    You can get that from Diginow — aftermarket people, but genius guys. 23 minute charge!

    also yes, me too on the DSR-F. I ride a DSR now (when not on my KTM1290sar) and the SR-f is great but too small...
  9. Cataract2

    Cataract2 Where to?

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    Not quite what I was referring to for charging.

    This type of plug on the bike.
    [​IMG]

    Would allow for us to use places like EVGO, Electrify America, etc. Also could use the standard J1772 plug at home which seems to be an optional upgrade on the Zero motorcycles. But the two bottom pins of that receptical would enable us to use DCFC stations and get that awesome fast charging. With the small batteries of these bikes, even getting a 50kW charge we could see a sub 30 minute charge possibly. All on the road which would open up long distances even easier. That is what I want to see added from Zero. They got my attention with the DSR Black Forest. Just have to step a bit more. I bought my EV and included the DCFC option just for the long distance times.
    TonyKZ1, Monkeyshines and E-luke like this.
  10. jgiachino

    jgiachino Been here awhile

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    So I have room for one more bike and I've been leaning electric...because it's new/the future...

    If I compare against my 18 KTM 1290 Super Duke R (naked performance bike) - trying to understand if it's comparable
    Weight = SDR is lighter
    Torque = Zero, but the 1290 is no slouch (106ft lbs stock / crank), thank god for electronic rider aids...I'll never turn off all the safety so cant imagine 140ft lbs...at 5k' altitude and 85* I put down 96ft lbs at the rear wheel on the dyne
    Performance = ktm (at least 0-60mph and top speed)
    Electronics = assume KTM as they've had the Bosch system in multiple bikes/proven history? eg TC/MSR/Ride Modes/Super Moto Mode/Wheelie control/....
    Range = KTM @ 150miles ridden hard, our freeways are 75mph and you get run over below 80mph...so guessing a freeway jaunt range on the zero at 60-70 miles? Honestly, if I could get 110mi riding hard I think I'd get one...it's what it takes me to get to Denver and back for work, or what I ride on my Sunday mountain loop(s)
    Altitude impact = zero, Colorado starts at 5k' and up...could tilt the perf in favor of the zero?
    Handling = no clue but KTM does well in the twisties but maybe equal or close?
    Track = ? Dont really care as dont ride track but?
    Brakes = ktm, m50 brembo's tough to beat I would imagine
    Comfort = Not KTM's strong suite (they pay extra for crap seats on all their bikes), comfort seat much better but still hard to loose too
    Price =tkm, $paid 17 new + 2k full akra exhaust and a few others
    resale = Ktm's aren't known for good reslale but neither are electrics
    Quality = guessing same ballpark, KTM's got huge volumes comparatively, but they've had some issues as do all
    Uniquness = zero, but not many know what a super duke is either, eg not a ton of them
    color = does the zero come in orange :-)
    Other: Sound of the akra at full song, quick shifter snapping through the gears vs. no gas, new tech, phone app, the future

    But my biggest question, I can't fig out how a ktm 450 beat it up pikes peak by quite a large margin?? I know Fillmore is a bad ass but something doesn't add up?

    Please dont take any of this negatively, I'm honestly trying to get apples to apples...I love my super duke but as I said I have room for one more, so just trying to understand...paper stats are good but surely dont tell the whole story...emotion/how you feel riding counts more than anything, and to date, nothing's stirred my should quite like the SDR on the pipe in the mountains, but there's always something better out there or coming!

    Update:
    Zero has no warmup time (except tires)?
    Maintenance: annual maintenance is the Zero for sure
  11. WagonWillie

    WagonWillie Been here awhile

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    Go ride a Zero! I think you'll be very impressed. I can't help giggling inside my helmet every time I ride my (lesser) SR. Hard to imagine what the SR/F must be like! I would think that the IMUs are quite similar in both bikes as I believe they both use the Bosch unit, which is pretty much universal. Bosch did a great job of making this unit so that pretty easy to program the controller at the other end even if it's an ECU on an ICE bike or the electronics on an electric bike.

    Nope, it's not going to have the range of the KTM, no way, no how. I would think that the acceleration curves are pretty similar. The noise on the KTM is lovely, the relative lack of noise on a Zero is equally addictive. YMMV, but let us know what you think after riding one and not just thinking about the pros and cons. The instant torque of the Zero has to be experienced to be believed!
    Monkeyshines, MJSfoto1956 and WDG like this.
  12. Cataract2

    Cataract2 Where to?

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    Got a test ride of the SR/F and DSR Black Forest for Monday. Looking forward to my RDO...
  13. Ray R

    Ray R Long timer Supporter

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    I sent an email to rg-racing asking if they had anything planned to build a tail-tidy for the SR/F.
    I got a quick reply with an affirmative, but no tentative release date yet.
  14. WagonWillie

    WagonWillie Been here awhile

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    I made my own for my SR. It was, uh, well, not as easy as I thought it would be. Worked out just fine, but if I upgrade to a SR/F I think that I'd buy an aftermarket tail tidy.
  15. Jarrett2

    Jarrett2 Been here awhile

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    So... Zero does a great job marketing their bikes as ultra high performance, but they are not in reality. Your SDR will literally murder a SR/F from any speed. Wouldn't even be close. I posted a video in another thread here about a 2011 GSX-S 750 slightly pulling away from a SR/F from a 40mph dig. Do you know what your SDR would do to a 2011 GSX-X 750 from a 40mph dig? :)

    Bear in mind, when you talk to many Zero owners, a lot of them are folks that have not previously owned or ridden something like the SDR. So they think their bike is super fast because the Zero website stats say so. The reality is most 1000cc+ naked or sport bikes will eat the SR/F's lunch. The SR/F is really more in that 750cc range of performance. And it costs a lot to be there.

    The other thing is range. The bikes just don't go that far. I am fairly certain I could run a SR/F dry in 60-70 miles of spirited riding. There is a motovlogger that said he did the same. Of course, if you ride it around like a grandma on the way to the post office, it will go a little farther, but who wants to drop $23k on a high performance bike to do that?

    If 60 miles spirited range and 750cc naked bike performance covers your needs and the extremely high price is doable, the SR/F is a fun bike to have.
  16. Jarrett2

    Jarrett2 Been here awhile

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    The one variable I'm not sure on is elevation. My experience with the SR/F is at around 500 ft above sea level. Things might change on the side of a mountain in CO.

    I've read that electric motors don't lose performance as the elevation increases. Not sure if its accurate or not. As you said, a bunch of gas bikes beat a heavily modded SR/F to the top of Pike's Peak recently.
  17. ctromley

    ctromley Been here awhile

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    Well, yeah, of course the EM is going to perform identically regardless of altitude, because it's the lower density of air that hurts ICE performance. An EM could operate in a vacuum and still have the same performance.

    The SR/F didn't do that well at Pikes Peak because it was an amateur effort by Zero employees working on their own time, most of whom were first-timers in a race effort. It wasn't "heavily modded", it was essentially stock, per this link from the previous page in this thread:

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/zero-sr-f.1359055/page-9#post-37962618

    Not in any way comparable to the pro teams who reach the podium. Let's not forget that the second fastest motorcycle ever to climb Pikes Peak was a Lightning LS218, which took the record 6 years ago, a record that stood until this year.

    As for your claims about ICEV vs. EV performance based on a YouTube video, that's hardly what I would call conclusive evidence. I do know that an MT-07 can out-accelerate a Zero S, but not sure how it does against an SR. And that's with the MT-07 using its gears, not top-gear roll-on, in which the Zero kills. The one part of your video that was absolutely stunning was the launch of the the SR/F and how it just flat disappeared.

    Running the SR/F to empty in 60-70 miles is probably possible, but how many times can you engage in such outrageous hoonery on public roads before you get thrown in the slammer where you belong? How many innocent bystanders are you putting at risk along the way?

    Point of fact - high performance motorcycles actually use only a small percentage of their capabilities, else the carnage would get hem banned, and rightly so. The multiple-Superbike-championship-winning KZ-1000 race bikes I worked on in the late 70s were rightly known as having monstrous performance. Today, any stock 600cc sportbike would out-perform those race bikes, straight off the showroom floor.

    A little perspective, please. Let's understand that actually using all the performance your performance bike has for any length of time just isn't done on the road. Unless you know of a cop-free area and you have no conscience.

    As for the SR/F's real-world performance, until we see some proper road tests, with numbers that can be compared directly to other bikes, we're just engaging in useless yammering.
    _mtg_ likes this.
  18. Jarrett2

    Jarrett2 Been here awhile

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    I do wish they'd do more head to head tests with it in the mags, but I suspect Zero might not want to do that...
  19. ctromley

    ctromley Been here awhile

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    That's not up to Zero to decide. I think the readers need to let the mags know it's something they want. A comparison between the SR/F and Livewire is a no-brainer, so I have to assume that's coming from multiple sources. If it isn't, we need to make ourselves heard.

    You don't have to be very involved in the motorcycle market to know buyers are also interested in comparing EMs to ICEMs. Testers tend to skimp on 40-60 and 60-80 roll-on times, which arguably are the most useful metrics for on-road performance. They also need those figures for ICEMs going through the gears. However they do it, they need to give readers a genuine sense of the differences between EM and ICEM, what matters, what doesn't and why.

    Magazines are just so incredibly stingy these days. Cycle used to do full new-model tear-downs. Long ago Road & Track would publish a full time vs. speed graph that allowed anyone to pull any information they wanted from it. It took a lot of expensive equipment and time to get the data. Now there's probably a phone app that will give you the same info, but management is terrified of putting graphs where an ad might be. And frankly, I have to wonder how many readers would know what to do with the graphs anyway. We're too accustomed now to getting our info fed to us. The information age is only a good thing if we get the information we need.
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  20. Jarrett2

    Jarrett2 Been here awhile

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    We already saw that test.

    The SR/F was neck in neck with a 2011 GSX-S 750 that has 93 hp and 52 ft-lbs. of torque.
    MJSfoto1956 likes this.