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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by mikledog, Dec 17, 2016.
Guilty as charged.
Appreciate your inputs. I wish I could test ride it and form my own opinion.
Forgive my scepticism I had had 650 max out on me on Tioga pass 2up. Dyno'ed at 72hp. Crappy CA gas might have been part of it Similar experience going up I-17 north from Camp Verde may have been at 85?
If you guys want to convince people, why don't you shoot a video and post it on YouTube? I am not asking show bike cracking 80mph up Ebbet or Loveland pass, anything reasonable like Vale pass would be fine. As long as it is production bike with panniers and filled with regular pump gas. Don't even have to load bike up.
Not sure what the steepest freeway grade would be in your area.. I-5 by mt Shasta? Tehachapi Pass?
By any means I am not dissing on 250cc bikes as I have ridden one for 60k commute miles. Just have doubts 26hp would work in ADV duty with side cases and load. Prove me wrong post videos.
Well said, Joe. Its like food...what some like, some dont. What some will try, some won't. Some do, and love it. I dont see it as banner waving (ever been on the Honda 500x thread? ) it's information preceded by "full disclosure". He's invited to weigh in at any time. He gave factual information, not anything else.
I grew up in Los Angeles, san fernando valley to be exact, and would have no problem riding that bike anywhere. You just have to adjust your minsdset when on a smaller cc bike. Any bike. You learn to take your time and get off the interstates when possible. I dont see cresting El Cajon pass at 75 2up or loaded down, just get in the slow lane for a while.
Here are couple...not that I am trying to prove you wrong. You do have to downshift on steep hills and the bike will give up some top end depending on the grade and the rider's weight. It's a 250. My point is that it will cruise at 70-75 all day long, fully loaded. This is one that Joe Gresh of Motorcyclist magazine put together. It's as close as I'll ever get to being a movie star.
Here's one that the Zongshen guys put together.
There's probably close to 100 videos on the RX3 online now. Only one video was negative, and there's a story behind that one (another guy bought the bike from the first reviewer and refuted everything the negative reviewer said...win some, lose some, I guess). The bike is not right for everybody (like most things in life, you either like it or you don't). My earlier comments were intended to address your comments regarding the bike's capabilities and to address your earlier concern about reliability and the ability to run 70 mph on the freeway. This bike is reliable and it will run at those speeds. Regarding hills, in my travels in the Andes and on the Tibetan plateau, I didn't find hills to be a problem; it sounds like you might. Like I said, the bike is a 250. It's not right for everybody.
Thanks for the videos I'll definitely watch them. With regards to your travels you may have made a whole bunch of people jealous by mentioning locations you have been to.
Issue with US riding specifics is that no matter where are you going to you end up spending considerable amount of time on the open road, and some western states have 75, 80 and even 85mph speed limit. Combine it with load, grade, altitude, bad gas (85 RON in UT, CO, SD etc), 40-50mph side winds in prairies, fact that many drivers treat posted speed limit as minimal speed and you may have issues.it will be either not enough or you will be forced to run it flat out for long periods and it would impact reliability.
Back in the day Leon Begeman rode IBR on 250 Ninja, but that bike had claimed 32hp (27whp tested) at 12000 RPM. RX3 claims 26? too close to cut off line if you ask me. Maybe it's enough maybe not impossible to call without testing.
Leon's engine was also specifically rebuilt to withstand 10 day/ 11,000mi abuse, which stock engine may or may have not endured.
RX4 would be a much better fit for US specifics. 40hp or more with some headroom to spare for extra load, clogged filter, alcohol diluted gas, etc... just saying.
My experience (and that of many others) is that none of the above has been a problem for us. I'll cruise at 70 to 75 and I've done so all day long. There are freeways I've ridden in the specific states you mention (as well as others) with higher speed limits; we just stick to the right lane and we're fine. You might want to pick up a copy of 5K@8K; it addresses the specific issue of running at high speed for extended periods of time (as does the Joe Gresh video above).
As for the 450 being better for the US market, we're going to sell a lot of those bikes once they become available. I have no doubt that many people will share your opinion, and that will be a good thing. My opinion is that a 250 is a better deal for real world adventure riding, which includes a lot more than just droning along on freeways. No one ever rode a dirt road on the way to Mompos or a muddy trail along the Yellow River and wished for a bigger, heavier, larger displacement motorcycle (my opinion only, not supported by other than anecdotal research).
The next time you ride the freeways and end up here in the LA area, look us up. I'll take you for a ride on an RX3 on our freeways to some of the best mountain riding in the world. If you make it back without a huge grin, lunch is on me.
Back to discussion about the threads topic
On Bethys' FB page I asked for more details about the apparent start of Team Cyclone on bikes that did not appear to be 100%Zongshen
The reply I just got:
Arlo Zudd replied to your comment on TB Racing's photo.
January 8 at 8:48am
Daniel Byers The team had two space frame bikes as debuted at EICMA this past November and three unknown perimeter style bikes. TB was riding the latter.
Thanks for invitation I will keep it in mind.
How much RX4 is heavier than RX3? I was under impression that it is basically the same bike with bigger motor, weighting maybe 5-12lbs more.
I agree that riding a heavier bike and getting stuck in mud or sand isn't the best adventure. Especially when you don't have riding buddies to push you out.
The prototype that I rode in China was the RX3 with the 450 engine (it was a test bike; the very first one Zongshen built). The production version will not simply be a bigger engine in an RX3; it will be a different motorcycle (similar design, but not the same as the RX3). I have not ridden the production bike, mostly because none exist yet. The published figure on the RX4 puts its weight at 430 lbs (versus the RX3's 386 lbs).
There goes most of the 450s advantage, that's KLR territory. You got an in over there, any chance of convincing them that's kinda heavy.
Wouldn't just handing the larger motor under a more or less stock RX3 be good enough? Maybe make some suspension and brake adjustments and make a tank a little larger. Should keep the weight from ballooning like that. Even my DR650 with a big tank and other things I've put on it is still less than 400 wet. RideFreak is correct in suggesting that puts it in KLR territory for weight, and probably even power to weight. Not saying it wouldn't make for a good bike, but that seems heavy for 450. Heck, I think the RX3 is a bit heavy being about the weight of my DR.
I wouldn't mind a little weight if it was balanced well, strong as an ox, durable, and reliable. I'd be happy around 400 lb give or take a few. These aren't dual sports like your (and my former) DR650. Different mission statement. It would be similar to a KLR. More on road bias than off. There's fast, good and cheap. You can pick whichever 2 you want.
Remember that is 50 lbs. worth of crash bars and side and top boxes....remove them and you're more in the 380ish range.
Just removing the boxes and crash guards on the RX3 is 45-50 lbs.
Yes typical build adds 50-60lbs.
Cases usually 11-12lbs each, racks and crash bars ~8lbs each, skid plate 4-9lbs, center stand 5lbs give or take. Don't forget auxiliary lights, risers, heated grips, etc.
I always laugh at the weight comments here. 1, its an adventure bike, your not airing it out off big g bumps etc.....your not freestyling it. Hell my KLR fully kitted was light. My hardly albeson was HEAVY! NOT anything adventure.
Here's a link to Willy's FB page with some photos I haven't seen anywhere else, including some close ups.
Can anyone get more details to determine if the Non-Zong framed bikes are indeed running NC450 motors?
Sure looks like a WR450 engine by the stator cover:
Not terribly surprising, but disappointing none the less.
my Gen I KLR with crash bars, tall windshield, after market (metal) hand guards, textile saddlebags & tank bag, tools, air pump, ready to ride with full fuel (6gal = 36 pounds) weighed 412 pounds
A 430lb weight is really disappointing
The weight comments (and disappointments) have nothing to do with getting air. It has everything to do with where you ride and what the conditions are like. You can be my guest riding a 430# bike through miles of soft sand. Not all adventure riding is involves paved roads. Doesn't matter what the old harley weighed, 430lbs is ridiculous for a mediocre (at best) 450cc adv bike. Add gear and a rider and you're approaching 650lbs. That may be your adventure, it sure isn't mine. I had hopes Zongshen would get this figured out, apparently they aren't there yet.