1090r gas geyser

Discussion in 'Ridiculous streetbikes with 6 CPUs and too much HP' started by okiebandit1, May 13, 2018.

  1. okiebandit1

    okiebandit1 This road seems familiar

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    Hi everyone,looking for some inmate knowledge and experience. Today I was riding my 1090 in mid 80 degree temperatures doing some slow 1st gear riding for about 10-15 minutes then rode at speeds of 50+ for about 20 minutes. I pulled in to a gas station to top off. I had burned off about 80 miles worth of fuel 3/4 to 5/8 full. Opened the gas cap. Heard a purge of air, then a second later had a geyser of fuel spewing from the flll opening. Slapped the lid shut but had fuel all over me and motorcycle.

    Question is,
    has anyone that has removed their stock airbox and replaced it with one of the aftermarket air cleaners had this issue after the modifications? I am currently running the stock airbox with the Uni filter and lid seal. Perfectly happy with this setup. But I do not want this to happen again! I am aware that the other air cleaners let more airflow under the fuel tank. Also checked tank vent and it was venting.

    Thank you for your help in advance.
    #1
  2. Lewilewi

    Lewilewi Ride it like you stole it......

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    sound like you could of had a fire on your hands...

    Have you fitted a emissions removal kit and blanking plates...

    As the emissions canister should catch over spill of fuel....


    If you removed it, then you should be vented straight to ground with a single vent tube....

    I'd double check the tube for kinks...as if kinked, it may be venting but just not enough causing tank pressure build up
    #2
  3. okiebandit1

    okiebandit1 This road seems familiar

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    Yep canister removed with tank venting straight down. Will double check venting tomorrow. I could see vapors coming from the vent tube when I got home.
    #3
  4. Bluesilver

    Bluesilver Long timer

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    If your vent is working, no way you can have a pressure build up in the tank.

    The heat is something else, if you boiling the fuel cannot imagine what your fuel pump must be going through.

    KTM do line the fuel tanks with heat reflecting tape to improve the issue.

    It is well documented here that running with the likes of the Rottie system, the airflow from the RAM tubes purges heat from under the tank. If you go that route would say air filtering should be 1st, 2nd performace improvement, 3rd running cooler....tank, seat and thighs.

    1050-1290 run the same intake so....makes upgrading alot cheaper in the long run if you go 1190....1290
    #4
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  5. okiebandit1

    okiebandit1 This road seems familiar

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    After thinking about the events I bet the fuel I put in from a small COOP may have still been a winter blend that probably has a lower boiling point. The tank had a small amount of pressure when I opened the cap and when the pressure lowered in the tank the gas boiled and caused the geyser. Still heat is an issue and the best way to prevent it in the future is the question. I s the Rottweiler air filter mod the only one that gets rid of the stock air box?
    #5
  6. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

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    You may have kinked the vent line when you put the tank back on.
    #6
  7. kokos79

    kokos79 Nomad

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    20' in 50+ speeds is enough to keep temps low, fuel shouldn't have been affected by temperature.

    The tank vent line is the one attached to the right side of the fuel filling neck. Check both the vent line and the check-valve ball are free and venting properly. If you've removed the evap canister or have recently done work on the bike/removed the tank, double check your work for kinked lines.
    #7
  8. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

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    1090's wont's have a check-valve ball. It's an open line to the evap can.
    #8
  9. kokos79

    kokos79 Nomad

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    Ι could be wrong but I think the vapours escaping to the canister are not affected by a valve stopping liquids. Anyway, it's worth checking both ends of the vent hose (towards the tank and towards the canister/open air) are free.
    #9
  10. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

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    The 1090s don't have a valave. The 1190s that did not come with an evap can did but all the new 1090 and 1290s just have an open hose to the evap can.
    #10
  11. Scro

    Scro I don't feel dirty

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    Once the tank is on I blow thru the line(s) to make sure there is no resistance.
    #11
  12. En la madre!

    En la madre! ilegitimus nil pelotum carborundum

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    Had this happen several times. One time the gusher hit the gas station ceiling and sprayed several cars.

    It was a kinked vent hose. This was on a stock setup 2015 1190R.
    #12
  13. okiebandit1

    okiebandit1 This road seems familiar

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    It was venting when I got home because I saw the vapors escaping it in the right sunlight. I did the same, blew in it after I installed the tank to make sure it was clear. That was 3 thousand miles ago though.
    #13
  14. okiebandit1

    okiebandit1 This road seems familiar

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    Tonight I trouble shooted the venting of my fuel tank. Removed all the panels to access the two vent hoses, one on the left I believe is an overfill drain. I could blow through both but I decided to go ahead and remove the tank just to make sure. Had to drain the tank because it was full. Opened petcocks and no fuel. Lightbulb went off. Tanks not breathing! Opened fuel cap and fuel runs out petcocks. So off with the tank and found that the small vent hose had pulled itself into a kink. Must have done it when I was riding through some brush and weeds. So I zip tied it in a gentle loop and also removed the plug from the large drain hose that was supposed to catch fuel from the canister. The tank vent can vent trough it also without the plug in it. So thanks to everyone who chimed in with your experiences. Great people sharing a passion!
    #14
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  15. THE TENERENATOR

    THE TENERENATOR Been here awhile

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    I just put on the Powercell pods last weekend along w/ the SAS removal kit. I noticed the plug in the vent line and removed it. Hope I never have a gas geyser like you did. That's some danger going on at the gas station...
    #15
  16. kgouldsk

    kgouldsk Adventurer

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    So guys, I've not had any of this off yet for a look on my brand new 2017 1090 Adv R. I was going to make a post for this, but I had a fuel fountain myself tonight (likely self induced), and the topic seems pretty related so I'll ask here anyway.

    Since new, I've been having continuous problems with rough engine/surging at low speeds when the temperature gets up even a bit. 2100-2200 rpm I can consistently get the engine to bounce rpms by 200 rpm 2x per second. Under power, this results in some pretty interested lurching. It makes low speed maneuvers pretty difficult when you have to avoid that specific engine speed.

    I also have stalling. Either when bouncing down from 2000 rpm when pulling the clutch/going off throttle in stop/go traffic, or when the engine seems to get in a mood and start to "labor", it will just drop dead like you hit the kill switch in either case. This has happened at least a couple dozen times in the lasts 2 months, and I know I've chased it off a few times by getting on the throttle when I hear the engine starting to labor.

    When it gets really hot, I really notice the variation in engine power - it doesn't actually miss, you can't HEAR anything, but seat of the pants it feels like you're towing a 10 lb rock on a piece of rope.....it pulls and drops off. Very noticeable at low speed/low gear, and a slightly annoying shake at higher speeds.

    I've also had 4 instances where I'm just sitting still, idling about 1400 rpm, and it seems like it's just when I'm about to go, it will stall. I have a habit of popping the throttle once and letting it drop before I get on the gas again and engage the clutch, so the stall would be just when I start to blip the throttle - really immediately before the rpms even climb noticeably. It stalls hard with a click, like you hit the kill switch.

    The local KTM dealer has been unable to do anything thus far. They insist they've checked the vent lines to be clear. No engine codes.

    I'm suspicious as to whether the throttle seems to go up completely smoothly on the lower rpm, 1500-2000....it seems like as I slowly open the throttle, there's a dead spot, then it catches up, which would point to a dodgy tps but that doesn't seem to explain everything.

    I wondered about excess fuel tank pressure, so today when it was screwing up, I thought maybe I'd try driving a couple blocks slowly with the fuel cap open. This, as it turns out, was a huge mistake. The second I hit the starter (or was it when I turned the kill switch to on? I was so shocked I don't remember clearly.), a giant gush of fuel shot out the neck. Is this expected? Maybe it was dumb to try to start it like this, but I'm sure I've been able to do this with my other two fuel injected bikes. This would infer the pump pressurizes the tank to get the fuel out. But when you turn the key on/kill switch off, I've always thought it's the fuel pump you hear.

    My ongoing list of videos of the stalls I've managed to catch on camera:
    https://tinyurl.com/y97jkz6k

    I seem to understand the canister venting but the other vents I could use some clarification. Before the last visit to the dealer, there was almost no flow to the tank vent line when blowing through it, either with cap open or closed. I think it was pinched. Now blows freely with the cap open, but pressures up the tank and blows back with the cap closed. The other one is to the PCV (correct?) and that's the one that can be capped if the canister is removed. If you just drop the tank vent one out the bottom, don't you risk pulling dust in under some circumstances? That's what the guide I saw indicated to do. So what about the other vents out the bottom - what should they have for flow, and where do they go? I'm guessing one is another tank vent and should flow free. The other?

    Thanks in advance for any help for this KTM newbie.
    #16
  17. kokos79

    kokos79 Nomad

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    Have you removed your emissions canister?

    How many kms on your bike? I've had the same issues with my 1090R. Stalled a couple of times when launching from traffic lights and also another couple of times felt the engine hiccup and almost stall while accelerating to overtake in traffic, from very low RPM, just like in your videos. All instances with the bike hot from riding in stop&go traffic, but not as hot as yours, have never seen 5 bars on the display, probably because lane splitting is allowed here.
    I also have felt that jerkiness/surging when moving slowly in 1st gear at around 2000rpm in a few instances.

    That being said, I think it has gotten much much better as I keep riding the bike. If you've got less than 5000km on that bike, I would suggest to keep riding, let the engine break in and then see if the problem persists.
    #17
  18. kgouldsk

    kgouldsk Adventurer

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    I still have the canister on right now. I'm at about 2500 km right now. I'm happy to hear I'm not completely alone in this. Maybe the fueling will change as the computer sees more kms on the bike. But it's near to unrideable at slow speeds right now.....about dumps you on your ass doing figure 8's at 2k rpm. I have an Adventure class coming up end of July and need to get it stable before then. Thanks for your reply.
    #18
  19. Wodger63

    Wodger63 Long timer

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    #19
  20. kgouldsk

    kgouldsk Adventurer

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    @Wodger63 - sorry, should have mentioned that. Yes, it's had the fuel pump replacement recall service completed as soon as I noticed it was acting strange. No discernible difference in how it was acting.
    #20
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