Another Dakar build

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by Gedrog, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    Its been a bit mission creep being indecisive over what the end result should look like
    Original Idea get a bike that has low fuel consumption
    Has a proven track record of being a rock solid platform
    Something I can take around the world love looking at every day
    I like to amble about so I would like extended fuel range
    Not that the Dakar is not a stunning bike but it looks a little dated

    So being collecting bits tools etc the thread may seem a bit random but this is to jot ideas down for the time being and bikes
    s-l1600.jpg
    I have always wanted a replica Dakar Bike or an actual Dakar bike
    LFbf5KK.jpg
    For a while I did romanticise about the Oryx although I am sure it must be an awesome light bike
    there is just something I quite couldn't get
    FzSbVT-3 (1).jpg
    The serious concept
    F650RRprototype.jpg
    But at some point we have face it some of these bikes have limitless budgets in their creation
    Most of these live in peoples dusty attics as kits once bought to build the dream bike and then the dream just became the dream. Like myself I had a fare bit of serious kit then got rid of all of it then the dream resurfaces most of what I need is now pretty much unobtanium or used
    Anyway ultimnately it will probably end up looking like this but with a modern take
    [​IMG]
    #1
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  2. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    First things first attack the Side stand the default lean angle on a BMW F650Dakar is just so weird
    [​IMG]
    First attempt a bit too upright hope the wind doesn't blow
    [​IMG]

    in loose terms
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Not perfect at all so been thinking below is the Overland solutions foot-peg hangers for the Dakar
    aLEEw3d.jpg
    But this pushes the footpegs forward and too high
    So thinking hmmm
    another idea.jpg
    #2
  3. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    Another idea for the side stand mounting
    Plans.jpg
    #3
  4. TobyG

    TobyG be happy :)

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    ^FFS mate, wrong side of the bike, for a start :D

    :amazon
    #4
  5. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    :roflI knew I did something wrong but everytime I tried to start drawing the damn thing would jump to a different plane
    #5
  6. TobyG

    TobyG be happy :)

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    Yeah, I am not even going to get started about you using MS Paint to draw something on a screenshot you took in a CAD program. :thwak
    #6
  7. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    :imaposer
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  8. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    Forgive the ramblings of an incoherent mind I have regular brain farts that come up with incoherent WTF moments so if you see me posting random pictures and babble on feel free to take the stick out and punch me so that I can return to Normal ramblings sometimes you have to bear with me as the idea idea is in embryonic stage. Advice is apreciated

    There is lots of ideas floating about for my suspension I came up with the idea whilst reading the @Ghazzah 48mm Yammie conversion over here essentially the Dakar and Sertao F650/G650GS is the same wolf with a different sheepskin to use the the WP cone Valve forks for a 2017 YZ450F I had them lowered by 30mm when I bought them anyone who has bought these know they are not for the faint of heart wallet. But this is where all similaririties to Ghazzah's built ends

    This is how a MXMA 4860 48mm forks were adjusted to take a CCM 644 axle. One leg shows a clear split in the spacer to facilitate clamping the other shows nothing hmmm so the cogwheels were turning about using the same configuration for the WP forks.

    Hence any bright minds out there that has done this before and can tell me what ALU grade I should consider at present I have got some 7075 round stock

    s2-20150924_111015 clamp LHS 17mm sleeve.jpg s20150924_111109 clamp RHS 22-30mm2.jpg
    Or I need to find a clever guy that can machine 4140 steel give him the standard 2017 YZ450 axle and say make the 22mm section 17mm
    The spacer on the right fork leg will need a dome cut on top of it as teh WP conevalave forks and I assume the 2017 YZ450 Yammie forks will also have the reduction in the fork
    [​IMG]

    Another option take these ridiculously expensive forks and give it to the same clever guy and ask him to drill the 22mm hole right through
    [​IMG]
    and ask a clever man who knows how tooo do it
    Make a more or less copy of the @Aquatic axle but instead of having a 20-17 mm reduction to make a in 22-17 mm reduction
    [​IMG]
    Initial Mock-up with a 300mm disk brake on a 2017 YZ450F
    that's when you realise it all falls apart this 300 or 298mm rotor is made for a WR450 the caliper pistons on that is

    [​IMG]
    Box'a'bits did the 48mm 2005 YZ250 conversion on a R100GS with the 320 rotor then I should be good enough for the Dakar but 2003 -2007 YZ uses 11mm master cylinder with 27mm caliper pistons

    The stock BMW 13mm master cyclinder mated with the Yamaha 27 mm pistons in the Caliper and was reported to be working well
    So that explains why 2003-2007 Yamaha Caliper was a better match just some useful or useless info to add should anyone read this and decide to use the OEM calipers of the Yamaha

    Just FYI the BMW uses a 32 and 30mm piston

    Here are the Yamaha brake calipers that uses the 27mm pistons
    1 version of the 27mm piston caliper 1C32580T0000
    Yamaha 2016 WR250F Yamaha 2015 WR450F
    Yamaha 2015 WR250F Yamaha 2014 WR250F
    Yamaha 2014 WR450F Yamaha 2013 WR250F
    Yamaha 2013 WR450F Yamaha 2012 WR250F
    Yamaha 2012 WR450F Yamaha 2011 WR250F
    Yamaha 2011 WR450F Yamaha 2010 WR450F
    Yamaha 2010 WR250F Yamaha 2009 WR250F
    Yamaha 2009 WR450F Yamaha 2008 WR250F
    Yamaha 2008 WR450F Yamaha 2007 WR250F
    Yamaha 2007 WR450F Yamaha 2007 YZ125
    Yamaha 2007 YZ250 Yamaha 2007 YZ450F
    Yamaha 2006 WR250F Yamaha 2006 WR450F
    Yamaha 2006 YZ125 Yamaha 2006 YZ250
    Yamaha 2006 YZ250F Yamaha 2006 YZ450F
    Yamaha 2005 WR250F Yamaha 2005 WR450F
    Yamaha 2005 YZ125 Yamaha 2005 YZ250
    Yamaha 2005 YZ250F Yamaha 2005 YZ450F

    Earlier version of 27mm piston caliper 5UN2580T0000
    Yamaha 2004 WR250F Yamaha 2004 WR450F
    Yamaha 2004 YZ250 Yamaha 2004 YZ125
    Yamaha 2004 YZ250F Yamaha 2004 YZ450F
    Yamaha 2003 WR250F Yamaha 2003 WR450F
    Yamaha 2003 YZ125 Yamaha 2003 YZ250
    Yamaha 2003 YZ250F Yamaha 2003 YZ450F


    The 2016 and 2017 use 22.5mm pistons
    Yamaha 2017 YZ450FX Yamaha 2017 YZ450F
    Yamaha 2017 YZ250FX Yamaha 2017 YZ250F
    Yamaha 2017 YZ250 Yamaha 2017 YZ125
    Yamaha 2016 YZ450FX Yamaha 2016 YZ250F
    Yamaha 2016 YZ250F 60TH ANNIVERSARY Yamaha 2016 YZ450F
    Yamaha 2016 YZ450F 60TH ANNIVERSARY
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    So after thinking long and bloody hard which is dangerous even for me I did consider for a brief moment to go absolutely bonkers
    https://toxicmotoracing.com/shop/ca...09_2017/1823-qtm_caliper_bracket-radial_108mm
    Hmmmmmm shiny
    [​IMG]
    #8
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  9. ferals5

    ferals5 Team black bikes

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  10. Eddieb

    Eddieb Long timer

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  11. Box'a'bits

    Box'a'bits In need of repair

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    Wow, a clear case of over thinking things. I see you already found the link to my conversion. You'll see that I copied this from others doing this conversion for F650GSs. So this really IS a circular argument. I found the 13mm master & 27mm calliper a little wooden. I've since switched to a 12 mm master which is better. You could sleeve your mastercylinder to 11 or 12mm easily enough (or get a machinist to do that for you).

    I've also got a set of KTM WP forks which I am setting up in a similar fashion for a sidecar, but using an 18" wheel R1200C wheel, 25mm axle, 305 mm brake calliper, & a 4 pot brembo calliper.
    #11
  12. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    I actually did a further explanation as to why this is not a good idea, problem is with the 2017 Yamaha YZ450F the caliper pistons is even further reduced to 21mm so using the Caliper of a 2017 YZ450F is a not a good idea even going 320mm. I have tried two sets of 320mm conversions that utilises the 27mm master so far the mounting on the WP cone valve forks is off by ± 1mm.

    So I will be getting a axle created to re-use the Dakar front wheel and making a caliper adaptor
    At the moment I have three different Front end conversions
    KTM950 with Emig racing triple clamps
    Touratech conversion easiest of the lot only challenged by the set of woody's wheels I have as it utilises a completely different front hub
    and
    2017 YZ450F WP Cone valve conversion
    Why so many you may ask well I have three bikes

    You are welcome to accuse me of over thinking it but read many overlanders reports of the F650GS and many of them will tell you of cooking brakes down mountain passes, due to the added weight of luggage and fuel
    Don't think that using calipers with reduced piston sizes would help improve the above in fact it would increase the risk

    The important factor is to remember why I am building the bike and if I was just to travel here and there then yes the simplistic solutions will work and rather than polute other threads I have started my own thread
    #12
  13. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    Another challenge is the shocks I have been staring at them for a while these are Touratech rear shocks
    One looks really tired well corroded but could be salvageable WP wont give me a quote said I need to send them in the sad looking one was through talking to guys managed to get a lead on a Touratech shock once located it took some convincing to get the PO to part with it.

    4.jpg
    This on the surface looks ok
    3.jpg
    Until you look closer :amazonlots of wear here heaven knows what the PO did bits of Nylon came out of the spherical bearing

    2.jpg

    Or I might just bin them and visit a Suspension shop that can help me with a costum rear shock that has more travel than the stock ones these offer 250mm travel over the stock 210mm travel ones
    #13
  14. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    The accompanying Touratech Forks that came with the reasonable looking Shock looks tired well abused
    Now I always wanted to have the Touratech WP suspension for the Dakar and it took years of trawling the internet untill out of the blue two sets suddenly became avaialble between Christmas and new years
    1 set came with everything brand new appart from the forks
    $_57.JPG
    The other set came of a running bike with the better looking shock again some deals were made as the owner was looking to sell the whole bike all I wanted was the suspension
    but in hindsight I should rather have saved my money, and spent it on a custom shock as it is giving me further headaches
    1st the CCM644DS axle need some different spacers machined and @Gravel Seeker these came in at 16.96mm
    2nd the well used Touratech axle 16.91mm but where you see the marks where the bearings ran it is 16.87mm
    3rd the brand new Touratech Axle 16.9mm but it has a strange roughnes to it but it could just be the plating
    All axles.jpg
    First thoughts were to use the CCM644DS axle and machine new spacers but ooops just under by 3.4mm dont know if that is a major issue
    CCM shortfall.jpg
    I managed to be in the presence of an almost brand new CCM644DS
    and as you can see from the pics the axle fits flush both ends must be a Bitch to remove the wheel
    Left and right view.jpg
    #14
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  15. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    Another phase with the Touratech forks due to the Forms being well used I was looking for Donor's
    0550W707 & 0550W709 I bought these of Ebay sold as brand new and they are no further details are available it was advertised a cross scrambler forks the only other place I see these mentioned in a Gas Gas EC fork conversion 20mm axle
    0518W711 Damian_74 had these on his home made Touratech set 2002 KTM 3EXC stamped 2685 and 2686 stamped on the fork clamps 20mm axle
    0502W713 These are from various bikes a I took a chance and bought a set of forks advertised as CCM 644 R30 SUPERMOTO that was in really good condition, no year or any more details confirmed with buyer that they have a 17mm axle clamp
    The Touatech forks
    0599V703 These are are on both Touratech sets that I have and the axle clamps are also stamped 2885 and 2886 17mm axle clamps
    0599V704 / 49.05 Ogri has the following forks on his bike reading up on it it was also mentioned as a Touratech fork set from 2005
    I managed to find brand new WP forks two types being sold 0550W707 & 0550W709 first set arrived no issues second set arrived and it was a mixed set 0550W707 & 0550W709 and then a 5 month backwards and forwards and backwards shipping of parts and long arguments started I finally received the second pair in tact and right parts a couple of weeks ago I still have a few parts that I am waiting for but once here I will tearing down the Touratech forks swap out many parts with the new forks as possible
    Forks galore.jpg
    #15
  16. Bonnie & Clyde

    Bonnie & Clyde Wishing I was riding RTW

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  17. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Thomas

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    Just to clarify, not sure those 4860's were actually from a 644 even if the eBay seller sold them as that. The other two sets of 644 4357's I bought had different clamps and the 644 axle doesn't fit the clamps on the 4860's like they sit now. Maye an insert is missing from the caliper side :dunno
    FIY :D
    #17
  18. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Thomas

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    Mine was 17+mm's. Enough that it wouldn't go through the wheel bearings. Talking to CCM they said all their stock measured the same, so they've either made the raw steel axle to finished spec and then added the plating or their bearings are some odd size just over 17mm. Removed the plating and it fits fine.
    Not a bitch at all really. Just unscrew the M10 at the end a little bit and push on it so the other end protrudes. But I think mine sits flush....will double check for you.
    If you're using the BMW hub you can just re use the RHS spacers and make the LHS easily enough. I made one from a spare rear spacer I got with a rear wheel off eBay.
    #18
  19. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    As you saw from my above post mine came in at came in at 16.96mm and went right into the wheel no drama's
    I also ordered the CCM axle with the left hand spacer which was £7 and change £41 and change for the axle but still in two minds to use it

    If I was to get an axle made for the Cone Valve forks I would probably do the following using Chrome Molly someone suggested using Titanium less than the price of an axle
    Retain the left side as is diameter wise reduce the axle too 17mm and make a 2.5mm sleeve for the right side and re-use the OEM wheel
    2017 axle.jpg

    after all I have the tool for the job now to make spacers
    Got a new Tool post, with some quick change tools for it
    Found a guy that makes a simplistic DRO kit for it, arrived yesterday and today so the lathe will get some attention this weekend while I figure out how to mount the home made splash guard
    The only thing I will leave to the professionals is the axle, because this baby does not have the capacity or stability to machine chrome Molly but it will certainly churn out some cool bits and make making spacers a lot of fun also got a job lot of drill bits and reamers and other bits and bobs
    s-l1600 (8).jpg

    Attached Files:

    #19
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  20. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Thomas

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    So you got a new axle from CCM and it measured 16,96mm? Mine def didn't, you've seen the pics of it in the vernier caliper.
    I got the RHS spacer from CCM, but didn't use it as the BMW spacer is the same length and also fits the stock dust seal on the hub, which the CCM spacer does not. Since the hubs are different I figured the LHS spacer wouldn't fit so didn't order it.

    Never used a lathe, but looks like a cool little toy tool :-)
    Balls deep in my new welder so a lathe is not on the books for a while :D

    #20