BMW G650X Issue Log (xCountry, xChallenge, xMoto)

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by andrewgore, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. Cycleman4

    Cycleman4 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Oddometer:
    313
    It is called the fuel tank breather valve. My dealer told me that it runs in a default mode if this is not plugged in to the system. Not sure if it is true but my gas mileage has improved since installing it.
  2. Kiwi Tinkerer

    Kiwi Tinkerer Ross

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    390
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    The local dealership changed recently. The original dealer was fantastic. (This is my 6th BMW) I was skeptical about the change as the dealer it moved to had a pretty poor reputation which I had experienced. I did the first 1000km service myself as I did not trust them to do it. However they have since lifted their game significantly. They got new mechanics and staff who actually know what they are doing to replace the deadbeats they had before. It makes all the difference if you trust your dealer.
    They are very professional and give great service. Plus they are only 5 minutes from my house. What more could you want.
  3. Muckpee

    Muckpee Noobie Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Oddometer:
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    Location:
    Edmonton, AB CANADA
    *** pictures here
    http://picasaweb.google.com/mmik3p/G650XIdleActuator?feat=directlink

    Ok so I've been reading about the idle actuator and there seems to be alot of evidence on the web that this might be the culprit causing idle stalls and hard starting.

    I also found this (from http://www.bmw-motorrad.no/no/no/bikes/endurobikes/g650xch/media/Rider_s_Manual_G_650_Xchallenge_2008.pdf)

    "The idle actuator is posi-
    tioned after you switch on
    the ignition. The coolant-tem-
    perature warning light flashes
    if the idle actuator has not cor-
    rectly positioned before the pre-
    ride check completes. In order
    to avoid subsequent problems,
    wait for this process to complete
    before proceeding."

    So I turned key on my bike and tried to listen for the actuator to no avail. BUT i noticed if you hold the throttle wide open while turning the key on - wait - then turn the key off, you can here the idle actuator making some noise. Seemed wierd.

    I had already pulled the top half of my airbox and was surprised at all the dirt in there (Time for different air filter!!) so i thought I might as well pull the actuator (5 minutes earlier i didnt even know what an idle actuator was).

    [​IMG]

    take a look at the pics, needless to say its quite dirty and STICKY dirty. I was just going to clean it but figure theres alot more dirt in the ports that this this works in. You can see the dirt in the hole but im going to pull the entire throttle body because i'd bet a pretty penny that bottom tube that goes from the actuator port to the injector side of the intake is filled with grime.

    [​IMG]

    I also turned the key on normally, actuator does nothing. But when I do the holding the throttle thing, after i turn off the key the actuator tries to stick out as far as it can. If I squeeze it a bit it senses the force and backs off a bit (as if recalibrating itself). This recalibration however might not work if theres alot of sticky grime in there.

    I'm going to clean everything.

    But, it'd be interesting for somebody with the ildling stalling issue to hold the throttle wide open, turn the key on, - wait -, turn the key off, - wait, and then start the bike and see if it makes any difference. I would think it should but might not if theres too much sticky grime in the actuator.

    I know other people have been installing oiled foam air filters but I didnt want to go that route as I like the low maintence/clean paper filter idea...ill have to rethink that one i guess..

    [​IMG]
  4. Muckpee

    Muckpee Noobie Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Oddometer:
    77
    Location:
    Edmonton, AB CANADA

    UPDATE:::::::

    Ok I completely took off my airbox and throttle body. Turns out this is extremely easy to do and requires no special tools. I then cleaned the throttle body and idle actuator. Then I put everything back together carefully and made sure I had no extra screws... Then I held the throttle wide open, turned the key on, waited, turned the key off (so the actuator could recalibrate), waited. then... turned the key on, then blipped the starter button and it started right up as if it were new! Seemed to idle alot stronger with no signs of stalling whatsoever!:clap

    Root cause? I would say insufficient air filter design used by BMW. Anyone know if the f650gs use the same setup?

    Now for some pics:

    Bike taken apart... amazing how large that air box is.. could use a smaller airbox and have room for 2 gallons of fuel atleast! hmmm...
    [​IMG]

    Even the injector is covered in grime
    [​IMG]


    Before:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    After: Clean Actuator
    [​IMG]

    Cleaned throttle body (just sprayed out with carb medic in 45 seconds)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Bike idling happily, waiting to riDE!
    [​IMG]


    UPDATE #2::::

    Just put 50km on the bike... or should i say NEW BiKe! Stalling is the least of the problems that are now without a doubt gone! My bike has been extremely herky jerky in the last 3000km of riding whether shifting or just cruising. I thought it was my new chain (maybe a dud or loose) that i put on (roughly 3000km ago). Cruising at low speeds (eg 90km/hr in 5th) was extremely herky jerky but now i can take it down into the 70's and its buttery smooth. Shifting transitions are also alot smoother. Basically anytime the engine was at lower rpms and the throttle is closed or alsmost closed i used to have extreme herky jerk (apparently it was just trying to stall). Cleaning the throttle body + idle actuator seems to have brough my bike back, i was getting ready to sell it but dont think that will happen now! Best ride i had in a loooong time!

    I recommend everybody clean your throttle body periodicallY!
    waylongway likes this.
  5. RideThereNow

    RideThereNow Fortunate One

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    87
    Location:
    Kansas
    2007 X-CH dissappeared underwater with me on it last year in one of those friendly Kansas floods :eek1 .

    Long story short, I was dumb, my friend was really helpful in rescuing me and getting the bike home and I'm alive and writing about it.

    It took a lot of work to dry out the engine and clean everything up but the tough little monkey runs hard as ever, no oil consumption, and has been on several long (1500 mile +) rides (Big Bend NP, CO passes) since with no problems.

    Mods before the mishap include a K&N cleanable filter, replaced the aluminum sub frame with TT's steel frame, accessory plug for GPS and that's about it.

    IMHO this is one of the best bikes BMW has EVER produced, or should I say Aprillia/Rotax and they made a big mistake not continuing production and marketing the machine both within the dealership network and with customers.

    :freaky
  6. plumber mike

    plumber mike Highdive Deepened

    Joined:
    May 9, 2009
    Oddometer:
    8,332
    Location:
    Paha Sapa
    Ride there now.....where did you get a k&n for the X? Part #?
  7. Muddler

    Muddler Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
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    1,024
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    Dardanup, Western Australia
    Muckpee, this seems like pretty good advice
    Thanks for the post
    cgguy09 likes this.
  8. Butters

    Butters Kwyjibo

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,182
    Location:
    NoVA
    Hmmm. Maybe somebody can clarify this . . . My coolant light always flashes three times (I think) after I turn the ignition switch. I don't start the bike until a couple seconds after that. My bike idles and runs fine.

    Is it saying there's a problem if it is flashing or you just need to give it time to re-calibrate if it is flashing? I assume mine is recalibrating since it is fine when I start it. However, I'll probably clean the actuator and throttle body as PM anyway - definitely can't hurt.

    EDIT - answered my own question by actually reading Muckpee's link. Prior to the quoted passage, the manual says:

    "Wait until the warning light for
    the coolant temperature stops
    flashing."

    So apparently mine is operating normally. I think I'll still add in throttle body/actuator cleaning as part of PM.

    Good info Muckpee!
  9. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
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    1,964
    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    So you are talking about item 5 in the parts fiche named 16_0755 - ACTIVATED CARBON CONTAINER/TUBING:
    <table style="width: 522px; border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102);" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr style="vertical-align: middle; font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; background-color: rgb(249, 249, 249);"><td style="width: 17px;" align="center">05</td><td style="width: 75px; border-left: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); font-weight: bold;" align="left"> 13901433602</td><td style="width: 285px; border-left: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Arial Narrow;" align="left"> FUEL TANK BREATHER VALVE</td><td style="width: 30px; border-left: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102);" align="right">0.21 </td><td style="width: 35px; border-left: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102);" align="right">1 </td><td style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); width: 70px; color: rgb(255, 0, 0); font-weight: bold; cursor: help;" title="No Longer Available (NLA) since 200902" align="center">NA[​IMG]</td></tr><tr style="font-size: 10px; background-color: rgb(249, 249, 249);"><td style="width: 17px;"> </td><td colspan="5" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102);"><table style="width: 500px;" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3"><tbody><tr><td> </td><td align="left" valign="top">13901433602 was superseded by 13901433603.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
    The fuel tank breather valve is also shown in upper part of the pic below (stolen from Flo)?

    Is there any way you could post a picture of how you hooked up the lines?

    On my XCo without the canister, it did throw a fault code the dealer said, but runs fine.

    :deal ?? But if this really gets better gas mileage we could all sure use this - has anybody else had similar experience?

    [​IMG]
  10. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    1,964
    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    +1
    Great post Muckpee!!! This is exactly what the dealer found wrong with my bike which would stall when letting off the throttle at stop signs, only when cold. They cleaned the idle actuator and throttle body and it has been great for 2 months! But now I understand what they did and could do it myself later if needed. Funny thing is my airbox was clean so dunno how it got gunked up and this could be due to something different.
  11. NittanyRider

    NittanyRider Walking Contradiction

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Oddometer:
    274
    Location:
    State College, PA
    I just called BMW of NA and the woman I spoke to told me I had two outstanding recalls on my '07 XChall... 1) "Brake Pipe Distributo" and 2) "Take up Roller Brack". Could the "Take Up Roller Brack" be the one mentioned in the NHTSA bulletin? The lady on the phone couldn't tell me if it was because they didn't have the bulletin referenced by the NHTSA number.

    BTW, what the hell is "Brake Pipe Distributo"?? :dunno
  12. NittanyRider

    NittanyRider Walking Contradiction

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Oddometer:
    274
    Location:
    State College, PA
    Thanks a lot, Muckpee and Snooker (and everyone else, too!), for posting the information about your stalling issues - I hope it helps me fix my stalling issues!

    My '07 XChallenge is currently at the dealership (for the 3rd time) regarding stalling. The first time in the shop, they reset the adaptations, and gave the bike back to me, thinking the problem was solved. The cold stalling and stalling when accelerating from a stop or at low speed continued, so I brought the bike back and the computer said there was something wrong with the idle control, so they replaced it and gave me the bike back. Thankfully, the stalling problems I was having when accelerating from a stop or low speed have pretty much been resolved (more on this below...), but the cold stalling persisted, and was even worse than before the new idle control was installed. Anyway, I just heard from the service technician, and he said that there were no fault codes, and everything looked good, from an electronics standpoint, so they were going to open a "puma case" with BMW to get some input from them. I forwarded the link to this thread and asked the service manager to pass along the info to the mechanic, so we'll see what they find out.

    So, in addition to the cold stalling, my XChall will also pericodically stall abruptly when I'm at a stop and just start to roll on the throttle and release the clutch, or if I'm making a turn (low speed/low rpm) and just as I roll on the throttle it wants to stall. This doesn't happen often, but it's happened enough to be more than just a fluke. Also, this stalling is much more likely to happen in warm/hot weather, and is accompanied by a uneven/surging idle.

    Anyone have any ideas?? :ear
  13. Muckpee

    Muckpee Noobie Adventurer

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    Feb 10, 2008
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    Location:
    Edmonton, AB CANADA
    Do you know if the dealer cleaned your throttle body? Could be gunk in the lower idle actuator tube causing restriction? You could also try holding the throttle wide open, turning the key on, then turning key off, then starting the bike normally (this seems to physically reset the idle actuator). The throttle body valve has zero gap when closed so if there's any restriction in the idle actuator passage the engine will likely suffocate or be severely affected during all low rpm operation, as was the case with my bike.
  14. shua

    shua plays in snow

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    Feb 16, 2008
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    225
    Location:
    Northern Mn
    I removed my tank breather valve a long time ago. I don't think my mileage has changed at all. Of course I did not do any trip's with the valve installed. I got 67 mpg last week.
  15. plumber mike

    plumber mike Highdive Deepened

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    Paha Sapa
    At first I thought the "gunk" could be the oil from an aftermarket air filter. Are there still folks running a paper filter having this stalling problem? Could a good in tank fuel cleaner accomplish a trailside repair for this? (think Seafoam)

    Just brainstorming....
  16. tbarstow

    tbarstow Two-wheelin' Fool

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    Jul 9, 2007
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    Location:
    Plattsburgh, NY

    Also make sure that you have a GOOD vacuum cap on the throttle body after you remove the smog crap, and then zip tie it on. Keep in mind, that like all of the other rubber parts on your bike, it will eventually fail and need replacing. Try to keep a spare on hand.
  17. Muckpee

    Muckpee Noobie Adventurer

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    Edmonton, AB CANADA
    I run a paper filter. Think most of the gunk is just dirt but also could be oil vapors (mixed with dirt) from the crankcase vent hose that also goes into the airbox. There are two chunks of coarse filter foam that cover the opening of this vent on the inside of the airbox (have to seperate the airbox to see). these filters have similar gunk on them that might collect elsewhere over time..
  18. NittanyRider

    NittanyRider Walking Contradiction

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    Jan 17, 2008
    Oddometer:
    274
    Location:
    State College, PA
    Thanks, everyone, for the input! I would be really psyched if my bike's issues were gunk related. I know the bike diidn't get ridden much before I bought it in March 2010 - the original owner only put 1300 miles on it in 2.5 years.

    I'll post an update once I get the bike back.
  19. dakardad

    dakardad Not waiting for anyone

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    447
    Location:
    SLC/Boulder, Ut.
    Ive got 10k on my bike two issues have raised their ugly heads.
    1. Im on a trip, stop for lunch get back on and turn the key. NOTHING.
    In disbelief I try turning it off on a few times it flickers, but nada.
    OK, Im sure its the battery right? fuss and fiddle fart ended up getting towed home. With all the battery issues (mine was changed under warranty before it crapped out.) I was sure I knew what it was. Well it turned out to be the keyed switch. It got hot at the dealer when I took it in.
    2. I noticed that my rear suspension was feeling pretty uncontrolled. Bag is good, damper is shot.

    Dealer fixed both under warranty. BMW of Utah in Sandy. Great folks:clap
  20. NittanyRider

    NittanyRider Walking Contradiction

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    State College, PA
    According to the mechanic at my local dealer, the "gunk" is un-burned ethanol. The people from BMW (who are helping out with my PUMA case) suggested using a BMW additive/cleaner periodically to prevent this from happening again. I'll get the specifics when I go to pick up my bike next week, and then post the information here.