Borough Council caves to man, recreational vehicle operators suffer

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Snowbird, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Snowbird

    Snowbird Cereal Killer

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    The news story is below, but the link is posted first to give credit and in case anyone wants to read the local comments.

    http://www.lockhaven.com/news/local-news/2017/10/mill-hall-bans-atv-dirt-bike-riding/

    MILL HALL — It might be a case of one bad apple.

    Tuesday night, Borough Council banned all ATVs from being ridden in Mill Hall. Also banned are dirt bikes, trail bikes, motor scooters, mopeds, snowmobiles and any other motorized recreational vehicles.

    The simple, flat-out ban will go into effect 30 days after the vote.

    Fifteen people sat in the audience Tuesday, and it seemed that most of them came to speak, or listen to the speakers, about the proposed new law.

    Based on what was said at the meeting, a controversy is swirling around one neighborhood, and possibly just one property, where one or more loud motors are creating a disturbance.

    Timothy Yost, who lives on Danis Street, seemed to be the resident in question.

    Yost stood up at the meeting and pointed to Perry Killinger, saying Killinger rides a Harley and Yost can hear it. He also complained about noise from the business Spook Haven and about neighbors burning plastic.

    He has reportedly made 38 complaints recently.

    Killinger replied the problems actually stem from “crotch rockets” and full-sized vehicles with no mufflers.

    Yost said he has lived at his house for 27 years. Although the police have been to his property numerous times, he said, officers have never warned him that he would be cited over the riding of ATVs.

    He said an ATV has been ridden there only twice this month, both times by his 11-year-old grandson.

    “There’s no reason to enact an ordinance on little kids,” he said.

    According to Killinger, “It hasn’t stopped… it goes on every night.”

    Other residents spoke, including Tom Johnson who asked council why it is bothering with a ban when a noisy resident could be charged with disorderly conduct.

    Mill Hall Police Chief Brandon Coleman replied that it takes time and multiple incidents to build up to a charge of disorderly conduct, while a ban can be quickly enforced.

    Dan McCloskey brought an ordinance from Salisbury Township in Lancaster County that he said goes into detail about where ATVs, four-wheelers and similar vehicles are permitted and where they are not. It even includes set-backs from property lines, so that vehicles might be ridden only where they would not offend immediate neighbors.

    McCloskey offered a copy of that ordinance to council. No one took it, until after the vote to enact the ban.

    “It makes no sense to me to punish the whole community over incidents,” he said. “If this were a widespread thing… you would hear people barking about it.”

    Neighbors are generally farther apart in a township than in a borough, Councilman Roland Weaver said, so a township ordinance might not apply.

    Mill Hall used a Millheim ordinance as a guide for its ban.

    Councilman Samuel Hoy Jr. said the ordinance should be adjusted further to better fit the borough and made a motion to that effect. It died when no one would second it.

    When it came to a vote, three councilmen voted against the ban — Hoy, Vincent Shay Jr., and Warren Jodun.

    Voting for it were Weaver, Fredrick C. Bucheit, Rick Hetzel Jr. and Council President Anthony R. Walker.

    “We were faced with something we had to take action on. We have done so,” Walker said. “Don’t go out on the social media sites and rip us.”

    He also said sometimes innocent people get caught up in something like this, but he supported the all-out ban.

    The ordinance was a response to a situation the borough has tried to defuse a half dozen times, the police chief said.

    The ban is meant to be restrictive, not punitive, Weaver said. People are alarmed they will be arrested, but the local police will use their judgment, he said.

    Christy Gugliocciello spoke about the issue. She also said her son, who accompanied her to the meeting, would no longer ride his small recreational vehicle because that would be breaking the law. Weaver commended her for being a good role model and teaching her son to respect the law.

    The ordinance bans ATVs, dirt bikes and other motorized recreational vehicles including trail bikes, motor scooters, Mopeds and snowmobiles. They cannot be ridden in the streets or on property, whether public or private.

    The exemptions are:

    r Wheelchairs, scooters and similar equipment for people who need them.

    r Lawn care, landscaping and snow removal equipment.

    r Equipment used for business operations.

    r Vehicles used by fire company or for other rescue purposes, and by the government and the military.

    r Vehicles ridden in borough-sanctioned events.

    The fine for the first offense, which is a summary offense, is $50 to $300, plus costs. The fine for each subsequent offense is $100 to $500, plus costs.
    #1
  2. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    Doesn't look like anyone 'caved', does look like a heavy-handed approach to solve what is basically two neighbors trying to out-ass hat one another.....and maybe the bigger prick won.

    Rather crappy result for everyone else though.
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  3. BkerChuck

    BkerChuck Been here awhile

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    So when do we set up a RTE at a Mill Hall restaurant and see if they turn away several dozen of us for our "loud pipes"?
    #3
  4. tlub

    tlub Long timer

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    If it's a registered, plated motor vehicle, they cannot ban it. Not in the US.
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  5. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    I'd have to get some loud pipes.....NOT!
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  6. Snowbird

    Snowbird Cereal Killer

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    That's right. But, laws on side-by-sides, early four-wheel ATVs, etc. vary some among states. In some cases falling through the cracks of what can legally be on a road and what can and cannot be plated, as one way this law is tenuous at best. Who has enough money and determination to overturn it, though?

    Basically, the law prohibits a form of recreation because of noise. Fun. What about noisy crowds at local high school football games? Exempting vehicles ridden in borough-sanctioned events is a greedy power grab.
    #6
  7. sixspeed

    sixspeed Tired of whining yet?

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    The "other" ordinance is Salisbury Township in Lehigh County that has the no ATV/dirt bike riding on private property law.
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  8. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    Let's change the title.....

    Loud pipes lose rights!
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  9. sixspeed

    sixspeed Tired of whining yet?

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    Seems like in this case loud pipes aren't synonymous with a Harley though.
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  10. dirt hokie

    dirt hokie Long timer

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    This town is right next to the location of the Best Dual Sport ride in the country. The Dirty Dabbers put on a great ride every year, best mix of trails you could ask for. Usually the first or second weekend in June. I drive four hours to ride this ride, and would drive 8 hrs if i needed to.
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  11. sixspeed

    sixspeed Tired of whining yet?

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    I'm sure they cannot prevent anyone from riding a plated vehicle on a public road.

    There are tons of ordinances prohibiting parking a motor vehicle on the grass for both aesthetic and environmental reasons. I would see that an ordinance preventing you from riding your plated bike around on your lawn could/would stick.

    Unless I'm reading it wrong this seems to be the aim of these laws.

    Sucky since many of us learned to ride on mini bikes... in the yard.
    #11
  12. Patek

    Patek Been here awhile

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    So, put a Pizza box on the back of the bike and say it is used for Pizza delivery--thus a business use and exempt.
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  13. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    From the article.....

    Klinger rides a Harley....so some loud pipes on a Harley might be involved
    #13
  14. PlainClothesHippy

    PlainClothesHippy Caution: NO humans before coffee.

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    Mercy, I rode my quiet Honda through Mill Hall this past summer. That makes me pretty much a bad-ass dude.
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  15. baka1969

    baka1969 Veteran Bubblehead

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    They can't properly enforce one piece of legislation (disturbing the peace), so they enact another piece of legislation. Disturbing the peace can truly be a nuisance . Riding a moped or dirt bike isn't. It seems a bit draconian to me.
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  16. JCool

    JCool Long timer

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    If I lived near the whiner , I'd be taking the mufflers off of my lawn equipment. :lol3
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  17. sixspeed

    sixspeed Tired of whining yet?

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    Wonder what they'll do with "noiseless" electric motorcycles (or ATVs)?
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  18. Snowbird

    Snowbird Cereal Killer

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    The way the article reads makes who is charging whom difficult to discern, but I think the Harley owner is accusing the ATV owner of making noise? And the ATV rider/owner pointed his finger at the Harley owner as if saying the pot is calling the kettle.
    #18
  19. Snowbird

    Snowbird Cereal Killer

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    Would not matter, ATVs are banned. But you could mow your lawn from midnight to 6am, which is what I'd do to the fuckwad.
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  20. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    With an ordinance in place, it doesn't matter who's making the noise, the police can respond, rather than waiting for complaints to pile up.

    ATV's can be quite quiet, so can dirt bikes, Harleys and cars/trucks so there's no good excuse for making an unnecessary racket in a residential area (or anywhere for that matter.) Round here ATV's and full-size trucks seem to be the main offenders but there are a few people who like to hold loud domestic disputes in their front yards who I would like to hear much less of.
    #20