Does the new Harley ADV bike interest you?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by canoeguy, Jul 30, 2018.

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Does the new Harley ADV bike interest you?

Poll closed Aug 8, 2018.
  1. I will buy one

    6 vote(s)
    1.6%
  2. I am very interested

    82 vote(s)
    21.8%
  3. I dont care either way

    47 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. Its interesting but not for me

    160 vote(s)
    42.4%
  5. I will never buy a Harley for whatever reason.

    82 vote(s)
    21.8%
  1. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    I am basing my opinion on this on the fact that to my knowledge HD has no bikes on the market with multiple ride modes, electronic adjustable suspension, traction control, etc. While I agree with you that for a "true back country adventure bike" some of these things may be less than desirable that does not appear to be the market segment they are shooting for with this bike, if it were I don't think it would be a 1200+cc with a fairing. And the buyers of this class of bikes seem to want these features based on what is on the market and what is selling. To compete in the market segment they seem to aiming at they have a lot of catching up to do on these items as all of their competitors have them and have been testing and refining the integration and performance of these for 10+ years with input from their customers and riders. None of the previous attempts by any manufacturer has been right on the first attempt, hence the evolution and ongoing development of those systems.

    Like I have said, I hope they can pull this off and actually market something I may be interested in again (Buell was the last and their dealers killed that attempt IMO) but they have what I see as a hard road in front of them to do so.
  2. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

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    Your avatar is truth in advertising. :lol3
  3. scot_douglas

    scot_douglas Dirt Harley Lovin'

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    That's why I don't do my own stunts.
  4. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    Who built the 425 lb dry weight, 471 lb wet weight (by Cycle World) Buell Ulysses? (rhetorical question)

    That was with a big ass Sportster engine. Drop in a Street Twin 750 and I'm thinking they can totally build a light enough adventure bike.


    Harley already was competitive when they were building the Buell Ulysses, lighter than the GS a bit heavier than the KTM. The dealer network and the CEO killed Buell, not the bike or the manufacturing.

    Uh... I'm thinking Triumph would gladly trade sales numbers with HD in a heartbeat. I'd think they would like the sales numbers of the Sportster for any of their bikes.

    When it seems like every third bike you see is a Triumph your "huge following" might be true. Right now it isn't.

    Harleys problem is maintaining the sales numbers they have, which is huge.
    Vertical C likes this.
  5. manfromthestix

    manfromthestix Lost in Space

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    I think it looks interesting but my prime concern would be how much heat that thing throws off right between your legs?? I understand it's water-cooled but DAMN that's a lot of motor stuffed right up under the fuel tank and seat... Speaking of "seat", that thing looks like a plank of hardwood :eekers.

    The first "real" motorcycle I ever had as a kid (after a series of mini-bikes) was a 1967 HD M65 Sport like this (from the net; to my knowledge I don't have any photos of that thing from when I was ~8 or 9 years old):

    [​IMG]

    What I remember of that bike from 50+ years ago was that it was slower and less reliable than any of my Briggs and Stratton-powered mini-bikes :lol3 (B&S, ya know, like what's powering your rototiller or lawn mower). I also remember that the freaking thing had constant electrical issues and ATE spark plugs for some reason; when my brother and I took it for a spin we each carried a pocket full of plugs and would have to swap them out repeatedly. It was constantly breaking down and stranding us and we wrenched on it non-stop. We loved that thing and it taught us a bunch of life lessons whether we wanted them or not, ha ha. I can trace my ability to wrench on my motorcycles back to that thing and I fondly remember the zillions of hours we spent with our Dad trying to make the frigging thing run again. It was a total POS but we loved it anyway and rode it into the ground. HD has come miles and miles from that era but I think they still have a ways to go to catch up with the current state of the art.

    Thinking back on it, I'm not sure I'm interested in owning another Harley Davidson just yet, it's still too soon after that initial trauma. :D

    Seriously, though, I really do wish them success with this bike and hope it helps expand their market share. I certainly don't want to see HD fade away and die even if I'm not interested in owning one right now.
    outdoorsman likes this.
  6. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    of course you had issues with your little bike...it was Italian.:thumb
    manfromthestix likes this.
  7. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

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    Does a Harley chick count? I'm shmozzing one now, she has a Heritage Softail something something. :pimp

    I used to get paid but I crash Harleys for free! :lol3

    First broken bone in my life. I'm thinking of subbing out now. :deal




    Sean :D
    scot_douglas likes this.
  8. SoCalCub

    SoCalCub Adventurer

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    My unfair stereotyping is triggered from incidents like this - a likely preventable fatality at The Dragon, with this observation:
    https://advrider.com/index.php?threads/killboy-failure-dragon-fest.454662/page-3226#post-35662181
  9. TheProphet

    TheProphet Retired; Living the Dream

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    Either that, or the fact that Buell was never profitable despite a very sizable investment by HD. 2008 began a very, very unfortunate downturn in the economy, and smart companies were forced to unload burdens on the bottom line.

    What happened the Second time around? Please explain

    What Happened the Third time around? Please explain

    If the bike was so fantastic, why didn't anyone pick them up for a Fourth try?

    Erik Buell is still around and available. Why isn't anyone pickjing him up to design their next revolutionary bike for them?

    Why are the resale prices on old Buells so low?

    Great products tend to sell themselves, your perspective is an old, tired fairy tale myth.

    It's all about dollars and cents, Business. It's not about personalities or personal issues.

    Here's a very succinct, to the point article. https://moneyinc.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-buell-motorcycles/

    The first objective of having a Motorcycle manufacturing Company has to be making a profit, otherwise you can't pay your employees or suppliers. All other interests follow.

    Having said all that, don't get me wrong: I think EB is a very interesting, very idea oriented guy. Some of what he has introduced to motorcycling has made a lasting impression. I wish him well, an hold no ill feelings towards him.

    What I DO dislike is folks repeating, garnishing and adding to the old, tired, worn out story. Time has proven that the Buell business could not be sustained, regardless of who owned them, or where they were sold. Done, get over it.

    HD is still in business, and raking in 5.6 Billion a year. Buell has been bankrupt numerous times, and you guys think he's right and HD is wrong? Ai Karumba!!

    Let's leave it at Erik's a great guy, but the whole episode just never worked well, anywhere, anytime. It is and was a sad story, but embellishing it with tall tales won't change anything. He'll be fine, and so will HD.
    shinyribs and canoeguy like this.
  10. The_Precious_Juice

    The_Precious_Juice 2015 Subaru Forester

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    Good post Chief,

    However, at this point I feel like I need to introduce a MC that some here may have never heard of.
    The Honda 1200 Crosstourer, or V4.
    $15,999 MSRP. 2017.
    The bike does not even have cruise control. This is what HD is most likely competing directly against.

    ___
    The other MCs she will compete against are of course all Japanese.
    The DL1000XT does have cornering ABS.

    I'm disappointed by all of this chatter about BMW or KTM.

    Folks are going to to buy the PA cause they want a Harley not cause of performance or value.
    HD will have the only American made ADV TOURING MC. The MC will sale well as long as it's kind of close to the Japanese MC.
  11. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    Amen!
  12. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Looking at how sales figures curves are bending for both brands, they are well positioned to do just that.
  13. TheProphet

    TheProphet Retired; Living the Dream

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    Seconds until an typhoon of major vitriol and hate!!! :hair Old embellished tales die hard.

    5,4,3,2........
  14. manfromthestix

    manfromthestix Lost in Space

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    :lol3 I remember the saying during the AMF-Harley Davidson days: "It is not possible to simultaneously manufacture bowling balls and motorcycles." But at least they were American bowling balls!
  15. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    When you have a sales staff that doesn't want to deal with a product, much less sell it and a company that will not make the effort to change direction, the results will be rather predictable. If you did read about the Buell story you'd notice the low effort given. A vast majority didn't take on the Buell dealership, preferring to sell standard Harley product. Plus the pressure to make the Blast a priority.

    As for the other efforts, underfunded efforts and no dealer network will kill about any up scale product. The engine was built by BRP Rotax, who seemed to do a pretty good job with their single cylinder engines on the flat track, not to mention CanAm three wheelers, Sea Doo watercraft, and Ski Doo snowmobiles.

    But that is totally beside the point.

    The point is Harley built an adventure bike on par with the current crop in weight and power. So I really don't see any reason why they cannot do it again. It will require a change in attitude with the dealer network and sales staff of that network. As long as they don't want to sell anything different any new product will fail. If Harley builds a competitive product and nothing else changes it will fail on the sales floor.

    In other words, if Harley builds a good adventure bike and wants to succeed they will have to set up a marketing plan to have it succeed. The product itself will not do the job. They may need to spin it off. Look at Yamaha, they have split up the product line and renamed it for their cruiser line. Still Yamaha, but now Star. Even Suzuki is trying it with the Boulevard brand. Polaris has gone that way, actually eliminating the one brand entirely after a while when they got Indian, running Victory for some time and eventually phasing it out. I would say if Polaris ever wants to do sport bikes, adventure bikes, or dual sports they will likely not do it under the Indian brand, unless there is some transfer of reputation from their flat track efforts.

    The Japanese automobile manufacturers did the same when they decided to go toe to toe with BMW and Mercedes in the up scale market; Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, and Nissan/Infiniti. Even Dodge did it with their truck line, now known as Ram. Harley may need to try to do the same. I will say Buell never was exactly a great brand for a sport or adventure brand.
  16. TheProphet

    TheProphet Retired; Living the Dream

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    Iconic brands like BMW, Indian, Honda, and HD already have a slight leg up on the rest of the completion through brand recognition alone. Fortunately, or unfortunately, riders often buy with their hearts instead of their brains. Some may purchase the Pan Am because it's a Harley Davidson, others may take a chance based upon hopefully good reviews from the press, etc. Other may stay away strictly BECAUSE of the brand name. That said, the Media is often brutal on new products because it's the safe, or conservative approach, and it also seems like total negativity is very popular these days. It's easier to trash something, so if anything goes wrong you can say "I told you so", and if things go right you can say you were just being practical, etc.

    Being a new product, the first year or two will see kinks, guaranteed, but if HD stays the course it could be an enjoyable, solid bike. We'll see. Lot's can happen in the next year.
  17. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    I agree. It will be interesting to see what develops. Reread my post, I did some edits. Right now if they try to do a similar effort to what they put forth with Buell it will likely fail.
  18. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    If around 50% of motorcycles on the road are Harleys, then it stands to reason that around 50% of the idiots who should not be riding, will be riding Harleys. While bad riders do SEEM to be over-represented on cruisers, I'm not sure there is any hard evidence to prove it. Even if it were true, I somehow doubt the bad cruiser riders will be lining up to buy a tall adventure bike, even if it does have a HD logo on the tank.
    SoCalCub likes this.
  19. TheProphet

    TheProphet Retired; Living the Dream

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    Actually... if you do some research on accidents per 1000 riders of the different types of bikes - Cruisers have the LEAST amount of accidents, old guys even less, Sport Bikes have the highest accident rate per 1000, and younger riders have the worst accident/fatalityrecord.

    So many of the accident reports just report "Total" accidents, which is very misleading, as Cruisers are the highest type of bike sold, and riders aged 50+ make up the majority of riders. This is why you need to balance these reports by denoted "per 1000 Riders" or some other equalizer, common denominator.

    Here's one report, I'll find and link about three more:

    http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskt...s-helps-push-rider-deaths-to-near-record-high

    Again, you wan to refer to reports that calculate accidents and deaths per 1000 Riders, not the total, as the total is very skewed. It's like saying there are more deaths every day in China Vs. the USA, and wondering why.

    See #'s 20, 32 and 34 in this report: https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/little-known-facts-about-motorcycle-accidents-31124

    See the statistics about age groups: https://assets.publishing.service.g.../447673/motorcyclist-casualties-2013-data.pdf
  20. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    Which stands to reason if you think about what bikes have the highest insurance premiums. Geico isn't just guessing....