There is a discussion on FB with Richard Goodwin about lean adjuster. He is quite vehement about not placing it by the shock but in between the bike and the sidecar.... making only one or two attachments.... by the number of sidecars made like this vs the regular option I would say he is wrong. But what do I know? Anyone saw that or rode it??? Correction: it seems that there are 3 mounts: “We work with three point mount most work with a four point mount the ,the motor I use has a 1000 pound lift which replaces the top two mounts. The bottom two hold the sidecar to the bike the third leans the bike” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s an interesting idea. From the failures I’ve personally experienced with these actuators I would not feel comfortable using them as such a critical structural component. In fact I wouldn’t bother with them at all, after mine broke for the second time I never fixed it or missed it one bit.
Vern Goodwin a late sidecar builder made or used those I would guess his probable son Richard might know how they decided they should be hooked up, the problem was or is of course if or when they fail and your not sitting in your yard, it could be a pain to ride home. I'll go with eastbloc ! Conventional 4 point sidecar mounts can be trouble enough why bother complicating more.
I do think it's important to be clear about what we're talking about. "Lean" and lean out" are two completely different things. A linear actuator placed near the sidecar shock can be used to adjust the "lean" (or perhaps more correctly the "tilt") of the whole outfit. The linear actuator pictured in post #1 seems to me would only change the "lean out" or "lean in" between the bike and the car. Unless I'm missing something (not interested in going onto FB to see what they are talking about.)
I've chatted with him a bit about it because my bandit rig thinks going in straight lines at high speed is for other people, but the sidecar suspension on the texas tub prevents trim adjustment via whole rig tilt. He showed me a pic of the leanout adjuster on an HP type rig, which seems like it'd be the ultimate test of Delta-V versus the mount. I too am sketched right out by the 3 point mount, OTOH I have my front going through a frame splice so maybe I'm misguided. If the actuator had a mechanical backup (turn this crank to set and adjust without the actuator motor/hydraulics involved) it seems like you'd be ok because "Escalator out of service; temporarily stairs. Sorry for the convenience." I'm foggy on how that'd work but it'd make it less scary.
Similar. You definitely would not want it to fail in either case... When I was building my rig I considered using a hydraulic tilt/trim cylinder from a marine outboard motor (pump in the hack behind the seat) in place of the Vetter adjuster - but like eastbloc, in actual practice, I've never needed to make any adjustment.
I had his setup years ago on a 92 RT/EML. And it worked fine. It was fun at bike shows when you’d spread bike and car out. But I didn’t use it to steer the rig.That rig handled great. It was built in 93 by Gary Haynes. I bought it in 07. Was one of my favorite rigs.
One of the failures I experienced with the trim adjusters introduced some free play into the mechanism. It was merely annoying when positioned by the right shock, but it would have been a real safety issue if it was also serving as the sole upper mount. Now I’m back to Urals so I no longer suffer from these first world problems.
Oh you old guys with fabricating back rounds are just not foolish eerrrrrr open minded ! Must have been a nice vacation !
Well, I suppose you could use a nice re-buildable Uniball rod end? China was overwhelming. I now hate crowds of people and I need to get up to Montana as soon as possible.
First off lets define things: LEAN OUT = leaning the bike away from the sidecar to adjust tracking. TILT = tilting the whole outfit to fine tune tracking. LEAN OUT is the static adjustment when the rig is initially setup. TILT is a fine tuning thing to adjust for variables such as weight in the sidecar, sidewinds , road crown etc. LEAN OUT AND POWER LEANERS : Without writing a book here on the go lean out adjustors have been around for quite some time. The Vetter Terraplane used a 3 point mount with the top mount being a manual 'turnbuckle' type thing to lean the bike in or out while on the go. Vern Goodwin experimented with an electrical means of doing the same thing. Results were good . Hannigan Motorsports also, for a brief time, did what could be called a 'power leaner'. Their ads would say " Carve the curves" . Heck depending on lower mount placement ( yes they use heim ends) the sidecar wheel could be made to steer slightly in the direction you wanted to go. So what's the problem? Why do we not see these around today? Anything electrical can have an issue at any time. Lets say you buzzed into a left hander hit the button and leaned the away from the sidecar.....woo hoo...we are trucking now.....then the left hander is followed by a right hander....you hit the button and nothing happens. You are now faced with a right hander and the bile is leaning away from the sidecar maybe 20 degrees. Constipation is not an issue and those pearly gates are beautiful even if all you can see is the grill of that Mack truck in the other lane. .................................... Had a guy bring a power leaner into the shop last year. It was a canadian made setup and his first sidecar rig. He felt something was wring with it and asked me to take it for a spin. Off I go. The actuator was slow in acting which was not good. I compensated for it of course already knowing I was going to advise him to change it to a conventional 4 point mounting system. Well I set it where it felt pretty normal and decided to return back to the shop riding like it was a conventional rig. Left hander no problem....into a right hander with a little speed....and....the actuator would not hold the bike up....into the turn and the bike slowly kept leaning away from the sidecar.....a short trip through the high grass on the side of the road was exciting but no harm done. Yes, we converted it to a four point mounting system with our conventional eye nuts all around and it turned into a nice rig. (((As a sidenote our personal feelings on using heim ends for lower mounts is a negative. Heim ends are made to pivot. They provide zero resistance and can place more responsibility on the upper mounts. Many use them and problems are rare (these days)....however, we feel that all mounts should share the load as much as possible so we do not use them..... no debate necessary to each his own ))) TILT ADJUSTORS: Power tilt adjustors have oroven to work well and are quite popular. We do a lot if Hannigan sidecar and always reccomend what they call their Electirc Camber Control (E.C.C.). It is a means to asjsut TILT ( NOT LEAN OUT) while on the go to compensate for road camber, loads in teh sidecar etc etc and provide good tracking. TILT does not change toe in like lean out can. Others also offer electric tilt adjustors and we can do them also. However we do prefer a manual adjustor which we do on 99.9 percent of our builds. No worries with electrics and pretty straight forward. That in conjunction with an antiswaybar pretty much has you covered with no electrics to be concerned with. This is , we feel. even more important to rigs that may be running off road as things such as creek crossings and just the sheer abuse that must be handled is better off dealt with without any concern related to electrics. Just our logic no argument desired. Hope this clears the air some. ........Again....LEAN OUT is leaning the bike away from the sidecar and is a static adjustment. When lean out is adjusted toe in should be rechecked as it can change due to lower moun t placements. When toe in is changed leanout can change also. TILT is leaning the whole rig as a single unit . Tilt adjustors come in various forms eithe electric or manual ANTI SWAYBARS are a means to keep things more stable and are, to a point, and automatic adjustment for various loads such. Choose your weapon, have fun and BE SAFE !!
......................................................................................................................................................... Some of the early Ural sidecar conversions such as eastbloc's had used a small bolt as a pivot to hook the shock to the actuator. We redid his and a few others. The little bolt is in NO WAY up to the task of handling the stress and loads imposed upon it. Quick and easy way to go but destined for issues. VERY POOR DESIGN !!! I just hope that there are not too many of them still out there that have not been addressed.
This is a fuse. Fuses come in various forms. They and circuit breakers are made to create a weak link in a wiring system to save the wires from creating a lot of smoke and drama in case something goes wrong. Fuses are heros. Fuses are good things and are usually our friend. Fuses can, at times, decide to retire also. When a fuse goes on strike or decides it is time to go to fuse heaven after a long and good life it gives no warning , says no goodbyes and just checks out. Humble. hard working with little glory it lived a good life. However when it passes on it can do so with no fan fare. RIP Mr Fuse ya did well just wish you had let us know you were not feeling well before you checked out.
Yeah that was a fun one. I wasn’t referring to that, though — it wasn’t the adjuster that failed but rather the upper mount in that case. A subsequent failure was caused by the internal mechanism of the actuator wearing out and creating slop eye-to-eye inside the actuator itself.
Yeah we redid quite a few of this upper mounts among other things. Good to see that things have improved from what they were from the source.
I would personally continue to play with the setup. LEAN OUT is THE main key to good tracking. That sounds good on paper and is a fact....however.... TILT is a means to adjust tracking without messing with the lean out so to speak. A light sidecar and/ or a softly sprung outfit is hard to get consistency from under variable conditions. Why? TILT can be all over the map if the suspension is soft. So ya get the sidecar working okay and then ya load it. The soft suspension does what? It TILTS it to the sidecar side and the result is a pull toward the sidecar. So....ya add ballast and get it working alright. Excellent. ....Now a passenger climbs into teh sidecar....soft suspension compresses more and the rig TILTS to the sidecar side. Result.....a pull toward the sidecar. Why? TILT. ....... One trick kinda off topic that is rarely brought up is that IF the sidecar suspension is stiffer than the bike when it is loaded it compresses to the point that the bike compresses also. This can be a life saver if worked out right but it is more by chance than design. Track width comes into play also. Answer? Stiffen everthing up....widen the rig.....fab a good swaybar....or.....make some type of TILT ADJUSTOR . If mounts are good and the sidecar spindle is up to it some have actually made some older sidecar rigid and sprung the body. Don't laugh it can work quite well. Many of the old Friendship 1 sidecar with the torsion leaf suspensions that were prone to pitching off the whole swingarm etc are out there as a rigid mount today and smiling pretty good. BUT....to do this the mounts MUST be strong along with all that goes with them. This includes the sidecar frame and all mounting points. I would not be too comfortable with yours if it is a standard Texas setup.