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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by DUTCH-GS, Aug 9, 2018.
Late apex give you longer to look into and though corner
Excellent and thorough explanation of a simple concept. I’m hoping these guys have other training videos out there. Thanks for posting.
Yup - outside/inside/outside
And thanks to some discussions here at ADV, I've even been taking to dragging a little rear brake into, and upto the apex...it really settles the chassis.
Then I release as I roll on throttle to exit the turn. Really changes how cornering feels.
I also find that late apexing sets me up better for the next corner, particularly when the next one is in the opposite direction.
Been doing this for years, something I learned from sports car racing.
I've always entered wide, hit the apex and exit wide. Its the quickest and yes allows you to see further through the corner.
I thought this was basic motorcycling?
This varies by bikes, its something I do a lot with my Ducati and something that I rarely touch on my KTM.
Using the rear brake you mean?
The KTM has so much engine braking that I rarely feel the need outside of super tight technical roads. My Multistrada with its true slipper clutch and often my wife on the back PLUS longer travel suspension really likes it, its forces the tail to squat with the front under braking while makes for a lot less pitch and yaw mid-corner.
Its a style thing though, YMMV.
I rarely use the rear brake except in walking speed turns. I'll try it.
Its something I started doing with my 2000 Speed Triple, that bike has forever had a TON of drivetrain slack, so a dab of rear brake to keep the tension on the chain during off>on transitions make the bike much more tenable.
On mountain roads in many countries in South or Southeast Asia, you have to be prepared for oncoming cars, buses & trucks to easily “borrow” half of your lane mid-corner. (Or, to be precise, you should be prepared for this EVERYWHERE, where you do not see all the way thru the corner – But there it actually HAPPENS so often that you can´t start to crap in your pants, you have to just deal with it!) ....... anyway, that has taught me to always ride in a way, that allows me to cut right back to the very inside of the tarmac (to its left edge on LH traffic countries, and right edge on RH countries). This tightening of line I will most likely do assisted by using the rear brake, although it can vary on the corner and speed.
So while you do benefit from taking a wide line into the corner (cos then you will naturally be able to see further into the bend), you also have to keep that inside edge-of-tarmac “survival spot” reachable at all times, even well before the apex, if you spot a nice little truck coming head on at you (or, at least that´s always my plan). And that means you have to go a little bit slower, if you´re right on the limit of your abilities, sudden tightening is often not possible, and can be dangerous to try as the motorcycle could easily be upset. Looking at how many people ride on mountain roads, I doubt they actually have that same strategy.
Also worth noting here, that (especially, when riding on roads, but can happen on a racetrack as well) a very wide line, that goes close to the outside edge of tarmac, often gets you into unused, dirty, dusty, sandy and just generally not very gripping parts of it, and there can be a real risk of crashing, if you go there riding too fast and too close to your “limit”...
....but not too far inside....
Mountain roads in any country have @Pecha72 's problems.
Sure. Sight line matters too. Can I see the exit? If so, I might wick it up a bit. Out/in/out is a good generalization but no substitute for solid SA.
When you exit the turn, if you see grass you are doing it wrong.
You should end up looking right at the center line of the next piece of pavement.
be careful , cars may cut the corner while you delay your entry. You don't want to be their hood ornament.
Outside is definitely the place to be. If you’re inside and have to correct, (move outside) now you’re going the wrong way and have to turn in again. 3 turns in one. And yes, on blind corners drivers coming the other way are often across center.
You better learn this quickly in the mountains.
Start outside, stay there until you see where you need to be for the next corner, ride to that point. Worry less about apex and more about where you need to be at the end of this corner- If the road you're on is fun at all, that's probably where you want to be for the next corner.
Driver's coming the other way will see you sooner if you are on the outside of your lane, and may be able to get back where they belong.