Guzzi Nuovo Falcone

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by leafman60, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. banquo

    banquo Newbie

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    Amazing coincidence really, but amazing coincidences are amazing only because you meet hundreds of people who aren't amazing coincidences if you know what I mean. It's only a matter of time before one comes up ;-) Nice link.
  2. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    a very minor improvement... 20170821_dash.jpg

    NF dashboard,


    These stickers (self made) are similar to those originally placed on V7 Sport

    Legend:
    Gen = Battery charging (red)
    Luci = Lights (green)
    Folle = Neutral ( orange)
    Olio = Oil pressure (red)
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  3. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Hahaha

    Sometimes I forget which red light means what. Main thing is, if they're on, there's a problem somewhere.

    I need to adjust my neutral finder finger. I'm getting the light when I shift up to 2.

    .
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  4. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    :-)
  5. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Nuovo Falcone Basics
    Replacing the clutch plates
    Part 1

    Drain the engine oil (and I remove the dipstick). Remove the clutch actuating cable, the oil switch wire and the shift lever. Loosen the right foot peg and rotate it down and away from the side cover
    [​IMG]

    Remove the breaker points cover and mark the points holding plate's position as shown with my pencil marks so the points setting can later be installed to preserve current ignition timing
    [​IMG]

    Remove the capacitor's 2 holding screws and the screws that hold the breaker points plate as well as the nut and washer that holds the advance mechanism and weights onto the camshaft end. Remove the advance weight mechanism, the points plate assembly and the capacitor together and set it all atop the motor out of harm's way (you could also remove the wires to the points and completely remove the points plate assembly)
    [​IMG]

    After removing the advance and points assembly, bend out the lock dimple on the camshaft holding nut and remove the nut (standard turn left to loosen). Otherwise, you'll pull out the entire camshaft when you remove the case
    [​IMG]

    Remove the 6MM screws that hold the right side cover. Gently tap the end of the case with a soft mallet to make sure is loosens from the gasket. Then, gently tap and work the case outward as you pull outward on the clutch activation arm. As the case moves slightly off the engine BE SURE to gently tap the end of the camshaft inward to keep it inside the crankcase and not allow the case to pull it out despite the retaining nut being removed
    [​IMG]

    Remove the side case completely
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The clutch assembly, camshaft, oil pump and other mechanisms are now exposed on the right side of the motor
    [​IMG]

    The double-gear shaft depicted in the middle is the main crankshaft. Its smaller gear moves the camshaft (for both valves and ignition points). The larger crankshaft gear turns the clutch basket (and transmission). The gear at the bottom of the camshaft is the oil pump.

    If you somehow accidentally pull the camshaft out with the side case, you will have to make provisions to re-insert the camshaft so that the paint marks on the camshaft gear aligns with that on the mating small crankshaft sprocket once inserted.

    part two

    The Nuovo Falcone clutch mechanism is a simple one and not unlike many other motorcycle clutch assemblies. It is comprised of 8 friction disks and 7 metal disks. The friction disk on the most inside position has friction material only on its outboard side. The inboard side (towards the engine) of this one disk is slick metal. More on this later.

    A pressure plate is positioned on the outboard end of the clutch disk pack and is activated by the cable lever attached to the outer cover. Pressure on the clutch plates is created by 6 springs that are positioned between the pressure plate and an outboard spring retainer ring (the part you see with 6 holes in it). The spring retainer ring is held in place under the pressure of the 6 springs by a large snap ring that resides in grooves machined inside the clutch basket fingers.

    When you pull the clutch cable, it pulls the lever inside the clutch cover that hooks under the pressure plate control shaft and pulls the clutch pressure plate outward to loosen the contact of the clutch plates. The 6 springs act against this and pushes the plates back together when you release your pull on the clutch cable.

    In order to remove the clutch plates, you must remove the spring retainer ring that will free the 6 springs and allow you to simply pull out all of the plates. To remove the spring retainer, you must have the special Guzzi tool or simply make you a substitute. There are many ways to rig up such a tool to release the spring retainer/pressure plate assembly.

    I used a common PVC plumbing part to contact the spring retainer and positioned it under a short piece of wood that is attached to the engine casting by two pieces of 6MM threaded rod. Once everything is properly aligned, the threaded rod nuts are tightened up to exert pressure on the PVC part and compress the spring retainer enough to free its holding snap ring for its removal.

    Improvised part to release snap ring. Be sure to use something with enough surface contact on the retaining ring so as not to slip off its edges etc. My PVC adapter was about 3 inches in diameter.
    [​IMG]

    Position the PVC piece (or whatever you use) on the spring retainer and alternately tighten the threaded rods to compress the spring retainer and expose the retainer snap ring. (Note- the red marks are just my habit of keeping track of what originally went where.)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Pry the snap ring out of its groove and remove it.
    [​IMG]

    Remove the spring retainer, the springs and cups and the pressure plate.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You can now remove the clutch plates for replacement. Be aware that the last plate you remove is the one-sided friction plate. The empty basket will look like this.
    [​IMG]

    Soak your new friction plates in JASO rated motor oil (I soak for at least over night). You can see the inner, one-sided plate
    [​IMG]

    After the oil bath, I noticed that the height of the new clutch plate pack was slightly less than that of the original. This may be okay but I used metric washers equal to the difference in order to shim the spring cups accordingly.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Place the shims in the bottoms of the spring cups to make up for the difference in clutch plate height
    [​IMG]

    In addition to this, I bought new springs and compared them to the old springs. The old springs were significantly shorter than the new. Perhaps spring fatigue? I replaced the old with the new.
    [​IMG]

    When you are ready to insert your new plates after draining off the oil, pre-stack them in the proper order, alternating friction and steel, so you will not be required to remember which plate you insert as you go. The one-sided friction plate goes in first with the friction side out (metal side towards engine)
    [​IMG]

    Insert the remaining plates ending with a friction plate and then the pressure plate with the spring cups
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Insert the springs
    [​IMG]

    Position the spring retainer over the springs. Locate the springs over their respective spring dimples in the spring retainer. Position the compression tool to loosely hold the spring retainer on the springs. Be sure to put the snap ring over the compression tool so that the snap ring can be installed once the retainer is pressed into position.
    [​IMG]

    This can be the tedious part. Check again to make sure the springs are on their dimples (you can feel with your fingers) and slowly begin tightening the compression tool to press the spring retainer into position to allow installation of the holding snap ring. Pay attention to the clutch basket fingers and guide the retainer slots over the fingers as you tighten. You may be required to give the spring retainer a gentle
    guiding tap as you pull it into position. Just watch the retainer slots and clutch fingers all the while being sure your springs are on their dimples
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Keep going until you get the retainer over the fingers and clear of the grooves that will hold the snap ring
    [​IMG]

    Put the snap ring into its grooves being sure it is securely in all of them. Back off the compression tool and remove it. Look over everything closely to make sure all looks correct. You are finished with installing a new clutch pack.
    [​IMG]

    At this point, if the clutch is all that needs renewing, you can replace the side cover, secure the cam with the lock nut, replace the ignition points plate etc, re-attach the oil pressure switch and clutch cable and re-position the footpeg. Re-fill with oil and check every thing else and then go ride.

    I will be going further into a few things and continue with more posts.


    to be continued
    .
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  6. JamesNFalconaut

    JamesNFalconaut Been here awhile

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    Very clear pictures and commentary Leafman.
    I will follow them when I (finally) change my oil pump.
    Looking fwd to the next installments.
    Regarding alternative pistons, I reviewed my previous options of various 2V Ducati pistons (Paso, 750 F1 and others) and Yamaha SR500, to conclude that none of these are suitable drop-ins, as their valve cut-outs don't match the NF's.
    Cheers
    James
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  7. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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  8. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    amerigo-vespucci.jpg Nave-Scuola-Amerigo-Vespucci-02.jpg
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  9. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Spectacularly beautiful ! Boy, those were the days.

    The ship is nice too.

    .
  10. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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  11. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the link ,Leafman ;)
  12. Dinko2

    Dinko2 Adventurer

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    0008 (Medium).JPG 0015 (Medium).JPG
    Thanks to Randell I too have these on my Falcone. Had a quiet ride out on Friday to visit some castles in our area. However around half of the UK decided to holiday in Northumberland at the same time so everywhere was packed with people which is unusual but for the last four weeks we have wall to wall sunshine with record temperatures. Photo's show Alnwick castle, and Dunstanburgh castle ending up in Craster where they smoke the famous Craster kippers. Great ride out but did not buy any kippers or had a pint in The Jolly Fisherman pup directly opposite the kipper smoke house as everywhere was packed with people View attachment 1268901 View attachment 1268901 0008 (Medium).JPG 0013 (Medium).JPG 0015 (Medium).JPG .

    Attached Files:

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  13. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    quote: While sailing in the Mediterranean sea, in 1962, the American aircraft carrier USS Independence flashed the Italian Amerigo Vespucci with the light signal asking "Who are you?" The full rigged ship answered, "Training ship Amerigo Vespucci, Italian Navy." The US ship replied "You are the most beautiful ship in the world." ;)
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  14. Kater

    Kater shock-proofed shorttimer

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    Hi Leafman,
    well done!
    There is one improvment we, my friend Peter and I, are doing concerning the thinner aftermarket clutchplates. We do not use a washer with the springs, we strip one old plate and put it into the first Position of the basket, so we have the original thickness of the complete package.

    best

    Kater
  15. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Hi, Kater, good buddy.

    Thanks for you comments.

    Yes, I see how a person could use an old friction disk and have the friction surface machined off by a machine shop and use that slick plate to compensate for the slightly shorter height of the new clutch pack. However, I cannot see that this would be any better than just adding the small shim washers under the springs.

    Another consideration that I thought about with using such a slick metal plate is that this would add an additional metal-to-metal contact surface in the clutch pack and I wondered if this could possibly weaken the hold of the clutch pack. However, if this new plate is back-to-back with the existing one-sided plate and in the same grooves, I don't think slipping would result. If it works for the Austrian Super Falcon, I'm sure it is fine either way.




    .
  16. banquo

    banquo Newbie

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    44th Transport Extravaganze at Glamis Castle (and appropriate location for banquo).

    OK, so it's not a great ride, and only an hour from home, but the Mighty Falcone was on display at this, the premier historic transport event in Scotland, with everything from steam, to tractors, cars, trucks, stationary engines, bicycles and of course motorcycles. Took the opportunity for a rare helmetless ride around the ring, although missed most of it helping a mate to get his beautiful Desmo started. Never abandon a friend in need. The sun shone all weekend, as it's done for the past few weeks, in an unparalleled summer in Scotland, and banquo got burnt, because he's stubborn and stupid in equal measure. We Scots don't see the sun that often, so we like to make the best and worst of it....
    I'd planned to sleep in the club's gazebo for the night, after a noisy and sleepless night last year in the camp site. Unfortunately, the guy who was bringing the gazebo forgot to bring the sides, and although he'd headed back for them, he was stuck on the other side of the river, as the bridge was closed following someone choosing to take a dive from it... :'(

    [​IMG]Fraser's Anglia Rod by bancquo, on Flickr

    I decided not to unload, just in case...

    Fraser's Anglia rod is fitted with a Rover V8 and sounds great; almost as good as an NF.... :eek:

    [​IMG]Glamis 2 by bancquo, on Flickr

    There seemed no alternative to heading for the bar, to find it not only closed, but not even set up. However, some gentle persuasion saw me leave with a couple of pints of Belhaven Best, as they have to draw a few pints thorough to clear the lines, right? And then another couple later, just to be sure.

    [​IMG]Friday night by bancquo, on Flickr

    The gazebo sides finally arrived, and my abode for the night was complete:

    [​IMG]Glamis 2 by bancquo, on Flickr

    We took a walk around the autojumble, most of which was covered up (I was looking for a mirror to replace the one that fell off last weekend - only 16 years old: can't get the quality these days) and the few vehicles that, like us, had actually turned up for the Friday night:

    [​IMG]Ford Stepside by bancquo, on Flickr

    Nice '46 Chevrolet

    [​IMG]Glamis 2 by bancquo, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Glamis 2 by bancquo, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Glamis 2 by bancquo, on Flickr

    In amongst these engines, I found a Barr & Stroud engine, from Anniesland in Glasgow. On later investigation, the next day without camera, I managed to identify it as an early sleeve valve engine, as fitted to motorcycles in the early 20s. It was missing the lower crankcase and all the externals, so just crank, barrel, head, piston and valve gear, and they wanted £250 for it. I was stupid enough to tell the stallholders what it was (they thought it was a conventional 2 stroke) and by the next day it had a 'not for sale' sticker on it. Should have offered them fifty quid for it...

    [​IMG]

    Lots of rusting mopeds for sale, including this Ducati 50cc, which looked too far gone for restoration.

    [​IMG]Glamis 2 by bancquo, on Flickr

    It doesn't really get dark at this time of year in Scotland, and this was midnight:

    [​IMG]Anglia by bancquo, on Flickr

    There being no food available on site (nothing opens until Saturday I discovered) I begged tomorrow's lunch from Fraser, in exchange for buying him breakfast....

    [​IMG]friday dinner by bancquo, on Flickr

    That clear sky was a killer though; I'd left home on a hot summer's day (rare in these parts, and it hadn't rained for weeks) but with a clear sky, then temperature dropped like a stone, and I was frozen all night. My tent retains at least some body heat, but the gazebo is huge, and not at all well sealed, so it was early when I made my first trip to the Portaloo, and there was no point at all in taking my shivering body back onto the cold sleeping bag...

    [​IMG]David Cosby by bancquo, on Flickr

    The grass was soaking with a heavy dew, and so were my feet, but the sun already had some heat in it, and was a lot warmer than inside the gazebo...

    [​IMG]David Cosby by bancquo, on Flickr

    After an hour or so, my companions were up, and provided a welcoming and warming cup of tea

    [​IMG]David Cosby by bancquo, on Flickr

    That kept us going until the Scout Tent opened, and we shared our breakfast with a gentleman who bears a striking resemblance (to me anyway) to David Crosby.... I found out later it's a guy called Willie Martin, who's something to do with Indian Motorcycles.

    [​IMG]David Cosby by bancquo, on Flickr

    We had a glorious sunny day, seasoned with sunburn and dehydration, although it was disappointing that most of the club stands remained empty all of Saturday, when the public was paying to get in. Historically, Saturday was members' day, and no public entry, but now they're charging people to come of Saturday, they could at least insist that all the stands are complete...

    [​IMG]Sat Morning by bancquo, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Saturday Morning by bancquo, on Flickr

    Of course when the show closed at 5:00, things got silly. I bought a pair of Arbroath Smokies (local smoked haddock) for dinner, and we headed for the bar (also the show dance, if you like dancing on the grass amongst the tables). The band was awful, and it was loud, and it was my round, so that led to some confusion when I ordered a pint of cider for someone who wanted a pint of Tennent's Lager. Of course I was forced to drink the extra pint, and wash it down with a few more, resulting in much silliness, bad singing and a lot of laughs...

    [​IMG]Drink was involved by bancquo, on Flickr

    We staggered back to camp late, but not so late that we couldn't have something else to eat, and break open the remains of the beer and wine. Scottie's GS chopper is not the most practical of machines, but takes a nice late night photo...

    [​IMG]Glamis 2018 by bancquo, on Flickr

    And take another midnight shot:

    [​IMG]Glamis 2018 by bancquo, on Flickr

    This time, I slept in my base layer, with two tee-shirts, and felt the better for it, although it wasn't nearly as cold as the previous night

    Things started filling up Sunday morning, following a light shower, that's the first rain we've seen since the beginning of June, and we had a few extra bikes arrive on Saturday night, with Cath's NATO V50 finally arriving Sunday morning, hot and bothered having broken the points return spring on one cylinder (one month old from Gutsibits) and had them close up for some reason on the other pot... Still we made up the Moto-Guzzi Militare contingent... ;)

    [​IMG]The Moto-Guzzi contingent by bancquo, on Flickr

    [​IMG]The Mighty Falcone by bancquo, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Sunday 2 by bancquo, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Sunday by bancquo, on Flickr

    All the entrants can do a few parade laps in the ring for the public's enjoyment, and as it's a rare opportunity to ride helmetless, we take that chance, and shamelessly screenshot pix from someone's video of the event...

    Unfortunately, we get there before it's time to go in, and as the compere says it's going to be 8 minutes, we switch off, only to have him give the go-ahead after about a minute. The Mighty Falcone of course starts first kick, but my companion on a beautiful Ducati Desmo isn't so lucky, and I miss most of the parade getting him started with much bumping and cursing.

    [​IMG]Waiting for parade by bancquo, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Mighty Falcone on Parade by bancquo, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Mighty Falcone on Parade by bancquo, on Flickr

    And that's about it; back to the stand, and before we know it, it's time to pack up and go home.

    [​IMG]SCMC Gazebo by bancquo, on Flickr

    The Mighty Falcone clearly wuld prefer to stay, and shows its displeasure by dying at anything over 80 kph, which is a bit limiting. I diagnose dirt in the carburettor, and decide it's better fixed at home, so we limp slowly back to base, and wait to fight another day.

    [​IMG]Leaving time by bancquo, on Flickr

    And that's it for another year... ;D
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  17. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    WOW
    Thanks for posting that, Banquo! I love seeing that sort of thing. Makes me feel sorta like I was there. I will look at it several times.
    I also wish my friend, Kater, would do another trip and post some pictures- especially those ice cream pictures.

    Banquo, those old cars look great. Ford truck, old Chevy. Man, makes me feel like a kid again to see those.

    Also, that sleeve valve engine is very rare. I have read about those contraptions as well as other historical attempts to produce a better-operating 4-stroke motor. I had never heard of that particular brand, though.

    Thanks again. Great images.

    No single malt nearby?

    .
  18. banquo

    banquo Newbie

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    This is Scotland Leafman; you're never far away from single malt. Right now, I'm about 12 feet away from about 20 bottles of the stuff.... :clap
  19. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    I wonder if it's cheaper to buy over there....
  20. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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