Kuberg Start Review

Discussion in 'Trials' started by Wallrat, Feb 26, 2014.

  1. Wallrat

    Wallrat Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2011
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Orange County, Ca
    Cost: About $1,100 USD
    Weight: 45lbs/20.5Kg
    Seat Height: 16" (40cm)
    Age Range: 3-5, but bike is rated to handle up to 220lb riders
    Where to buy? http://www.kuberg.com/p-2-start.aspx

    Been sorta meaning to do this for awhile but just haven't gotten around to it. I bought my 2 year, 10 months kid a Kuberg Start this past 2013 Xmas and think I've had enough time playing with it to give a summary. He just turned 3 and is riding it nearly everyday.

    About the Start: Kuberg suggests this bike for riders aged 3-5 but I can see where slightly older or slightly younger would be fine - really just depends on your kid and you know them better than I do. Mine is a little bruiser and has been bombing big dirt hills on his Strider for months now - without brakes! His mom is forbidden to come with us on these rides. I wouldn't have hesitated getting him the Start a bit earlier but Christmas is a good excuse to drop $1200 on your kid. A lot right? Well a new gas powered 50 is about the same price, but there's a huge market of used gas 50's will run you around $600, and you can sell it when he's outgrown it for probably about the same. These electrics are in short supply in the used market, and from what I've seen are usually only about $200 cheaper than new. So most likely its a small investment to get your 3 year old on a bike 2 years earlier than the other kids. Even if you plan to go with a 2x heavier gas bike, the lowest seat height I found was 19.1" on the PW50, so you're looking at age 4 or 5 being the youngest you can start your rider on a gas bike. Plus unless you live out in the sticks, your kid is gonna get a ton of seat time on an electric bike. Garage? Backyard? No problem. Living room? Eh maybe when mom is at the store...

    1st question: Oset or Kuberg? I did a lot of research beforehand, and while the Oset is vastly more popular (indeed I was 100% sold on getting one), once I'd seen both bikes in person the choice was obviously Kuberg. The construction is of considerably higher quality and the cost is only $50 more. Don't get me wrong, the Oset is a nice bike and its good for the industry to have brands competing. I just personally felt that the Kuberg was a nicer bike for the money. Kuberg customer service is amazing. I've heard that Oset shares this trait so with either bike, rest assured that any issues or questions you have will be dealt with usually the same day.

    Packaging: Although well packaged, mine still came damaged. The box appeared to have been dropped repeatedly on the front forks. They were rolled over/rotated, but I was able to [mostly] straighten them. They don't travel very well but my kid is still too light to really make them travel so its not a huge concern just yet. Good thing too, as UPS is still figuring out how to handle my claim. The front wheel and front fender which aren't attached to the bike during shipping were also damaged but I was able to true them up to useable condition.
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    Assembly: Handlebars and front wheel/fender pretty much sum up the assembly. I think I spent about 7 minutes once I'd gotten all the parts unbent. Assembling Ikea furniture is harder than getting one of these bikes assembled.
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    Manual: Very good IMO. Instructions are very clear and cover basic maintenance and upkeep as well as tips for teaching a 1st time rider.

    Mods: Despite having ridden a Strider since he turned 2, my kid was pretty nervous about the Start at first. He'd putt around but didn't like that he couldn't touch very well and the throttle/braking was rather lost on him. On the lowest speed setting balance is a serious issue since top speed is only about 2-2.5 mph on flat pavement. On hills/dirt/grass setting #1 is useless. The bike just sits there and hums. Setting #2 is great for hills/dirt/grass but is about 6-7 mph on flat pavement.

    The speed selector button requires a 2 hand process. Its unlikely the little ones will be able to figure it out if you keep it subtle. Mine is a little problem solver and presses the button all the time trying to make it faster but doesn't realize it must be done in conjunction with the handlebar switch. The bike will remember the last setting used so you really won't have to mess with it. We did since we had to stick with #1 for pavement, then bump it up to #2 once we got on grass at the local park. Kuberg lists the top speed of the Start as 15mph/24Km/h. I stuck my 100 lb wife on it to test that on speed #5 and would say that's about accurate. Sustained use at max speed, you can expect about 1 hour of battery life for a child rider, less if your wife refuses to get off. At setting #2 (about 6-7 mph on flat concrete), we ride about 0.5 miles to a park, tear up all over the soccer field and some small grass hills for about an hour, and 0.5 miles home. The battery is usually around 60% full after that and is recharged in about an hour.
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    Anyway my solution was to make some training wheels until he got used to the power and controls. He's ready to remove them by now, so we're having chats about it every time we go ride. He gets his stubbornness from his mother.
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    He also thinks its funny to try and ditch us. He'll take off on his strider and try to find a way to lose you. Obviously then, we got a remote cutoff switch for his Kuberg from http://www.3built.com. I went with the universal one that comes with a 4AA battery pack but it looks as though they have one that will run on a 24v system now.

    That's the cutoff mounted to the front of the upper battery (right side of pic), and the battery pack mounted to the rear of the lower battery. The charging plug is mounted under the subframe on the left side of the pic, directly above the motor. Its well protected during riding although it is in the most natural position to grab when you have to pick the bike up. Thankfully the mounting tab is pretty stout so I haven't bent it yet.
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    And the remote:
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    Weight loss: At 44lbs, the Start is still 11 lbs heavier than my kid. I found some info on converting it over to LiPo batteries for a 9.5lb or 23% overall bike weight reduction. Cost is about $200. Plus the batteries are smaller so they'll only take up the bottom half of the lower battery tray, thereby lowering the center of gravity a fair bit. Going to be doing that in the next month. Many thanks to the Oset owners for doing all the R&D to come up with a way to do this conversion. Also I'm thinking of hacking off the kickstand since its steel and not really needed IMO.
    #1
  2. Wallrat

    Wallrat Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2011
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Orange County, Ca
    Controls: It took my kid a couple rides to the park to really figure out the whole throttle/brake idea. The Kuberg has allen set screws to really adjust the levers down to the bars so don't worry about your kid's hands being too small to reach. Mine has rather dainty hands and he can use both brakes without taking his hands off the bars no problem. Just be warned, if you snug these levers up this much, you better have some very true wheels or your front brake will be rubbing. The rear is a band brake so no biggie there, but keep it true anyway.
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    Kill switch and battery level indicator
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    But we're in the US where MX is KING!
    No problem. For about $80, we added a MX seat. Swapping em out takes a 3mm allen wrench and about 90 seconds. But it does add some considerable height to the seat putting it more on par with the seat height on the 50's:
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    Overall Impression: Great little bike for the young ones. At less than half the weight, nearly no maintenance, and no hot parts - I'm definitely sold on electric instead of gas. The 50's are dead IMO, electric is such a better platform for young riders. As far as Oset vs. Kuberg goes, I really truly hope that Oset gets away from Chinese production so that I have a competitive choice to make when my son outgrows his Start. My only complaints about the Start is that power setting #1 is just a bit too anemic, and #2 is a pretty considerable increase. I'd like to see #1 increased by 1mph or so just to make it usable without training wheels. Secondly the suspension is pretty hefty for young riders. I'm not sure if new forks will improve the front or not. As is, they're stiff and sticky. The rear spring is just too heavy for kids. Even my 100lb wife doesn't bottom it out when standing on the bike with the preload dialed all the way out.




    More to come....
    #2
  3. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    So what makes you think that this is not made with china manufactured parts?
    #3
  4. Wallrat

    Wallrat Been here awhile

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    Location:
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    I wanted to add some action shots and some pics of the plastics removed so folks can get an idea of what's involved on these bikes:

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    Chain guard does a nice job of protecting your offspring from the rotating parts, but good parenting does an even better job. Chain adjustment is a 2 minute affair and since the motor is mounted on the swingarm you just snug it up just right and call it good. Spin the wheel after you tighten it, if its noisy, loosen it a bit.
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    Even with the preload fully loosened the suspension is really stiff for my 33lb kid. He doesn't seem to mind but a lighter spring option would be nice. The front forks are non-adjustable and mine stick a lot, although I suspect this is due in part to the damage done by UPS. Good view of the charging jack located under the seat on the right side of the bike.
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    Magnetic kill switch lanyard. A nice touch. Comes standard with a wrist lanyard. We added a small carabiner to ours so we can attach it to his waistband and leave his hands free.
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    Heim joint swingarm pivots. Really a nice touch. I've read that Oset has some issues here as they use a cheap plastic sleeve rather than a bushing.
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    Two 12v 8Ah batteries supply the power. Being sealed lead acid they're maintenance free and you can plug the bike into the charger after every ride if you choose to. Unfortunately at 6.5lbs each, they're pretty heavy. You can DIY swap in a pair of 5000mAh 6S LiPo's (at about $50 each) and drop 9.5 lbs. Unfortunately they're a bit more needy when it comes time to recharge so you really should remove them from the bike and you have to use a LiPo specific charger. Its more involved than the stock SLA's, but a nice option if you don't mind the added hassle. The bundle of yellow/green/red wire on the left is leftovers from the remote cutoff that I left stock length in case I need to move it to his next bike and need a longer run.
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    Gavin has discovered that he can spin the rear wheel on wet cement if he turns hard and punches it. He spent an hour doing it (notice all the tire tracks). Bike was still going strong when we got home but I put it on the charger anyway. Recharge time: about 15 minutes. We live in a gated community with a lot of retirees. Our HOA actually has a ban on Power Wheels types of toys because of the noise. No issue with the Kuberg. I've even had an HOA member come out and ask what I did to make it so quiet. "Spent a lot of money," I replied. Haha.
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    This is why you want one of these bikes. Can't get any more genuine than that.
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    #4
  5. Wallrat

    Wallrat Been here awhile

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Honestly I think its impossible to buy anything nowadays that doesn't have several Chinese parts. Heck the LiPo's I'm planning to buy for it are from HobbyKing - a Chinese RC company that sells stuff for a fraction of what you'd pay elsewhere. If the cost is significant enough, I'm not opposed to buying Chinese.

    For me the biggest peeve is the welds. Chinese welds are always goopy mounds of slag and look like they were made with a car battery, some jumper cables, and a couple pennies for electrodes. While I doubt a 3-5 year old is going to snap even a crappy weld, if the price is the same, why settle for substandard construction? Put the bikes side by side like I did and judge for yourself. Buy whichever one you like and you're still going to be glad you didn't get a petrol 50.
    #5
  6. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    I know you are new to this and are having a great time with your kid. The electrics are really cool. But not even close to the petrol bikes. As your kid grows and is sitting there with no juice to go any further, while the other kids ride for hours on end . That is the difference in a weekend out riding. (watching sucks for a kid)
    Enjoy this while you can. I had a large boy. By the time he was 11 he started looking down on me. Then he started this!



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    #6
  7. Wallrat

    Wallrat Been here awhile

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    I'm new to trials, but I've been riding and wrenching on bikes (street and dirt) for 23 years, having rebuilt my 1st engine by myself at age 13. As of right now, the full size electrics just aren't up to par with their gas cousins and I fully expect he'll be on a gasser when he's bigger - but who knows what will be available in another 10 years. At a minimum I'd like to own a couple full size electrics since it's a 90 minute drive to the nearest area where we can use gas bikes.

    But for really young riders there's just no comparison. At about $15 for a 12v 9Ah SLA battery, there's no reason not to have a set of spares on these little bikes. It's a 10 minute job to swap the batteries. At his age he just doesn't have the patience or the stamina to run the batteries flat yet so a single set works fine.
    #7
  8. laser17

    laser17 Long timer

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    The electrics are WAY better bikes for kids under 5 y/o than gas. Look at the options on the gas side and tell me im wrong. My kid started on a pw50 and they suck compared to the current electrics. Im not sure the gas 50's are going to be around much longer. (Havent been updated in ages anyway)

    Thanks for posting the update on the Kuberg. The smiles are the key to getting kids into trials.
    #8
  9. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    For under 5 they are the way to go. But other than a parking lot trials the batteries hold them back. We`ve tried changing our rules so they could make it around the loop. (Ride each section 3 times in a row) Our local oset dealer has been trying to ride his adult one with his daughter, but has been having overheating issues. They are getting better. Still very strange to ride though due to the lag time in power delivery.
    #9
  10. buggernuts

    buggernuts n00b

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4
    Location:
    St Germain, MB
    How do the Kuberg's like rain? Maybe all y'all live in the desert, but my boy leaves the house and heads for the goopiest thing he can find. How long do they survive in the dirt?
    Thx
    #10
  11. Wallrat

    Wallrat Been here awhile

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    Oct 8, 2011
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    Location:
    Orange County, Ca
    Old thread but since I never responded to this question:

    Its an electric so I'd advise to steer clear of water and mud. Mine hit a goopy mud hole the other day and the front wheel would barely turn until I removed the fender. I removed it and we managed just fine the rest of the day.

    On dirt its great for what it is. You're not gonna float on sand or soft terrain so its limited to fairly hard pack. He's 4 now so I put the MX seat on to keep his chin off his knees (he still doesn't like to stand up). I switched to LiPO for a significant weight savings and have a thread on it if you search my posts.

    Went to the local bash track at a local park last weekend. Rode all morning on a single charge, then a picnic lunch before heading home.
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    #11