Moto Guzzi Stelvio (merged) threadfest...

Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by young skywalker, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. Xlratr

    Xlratr Been here awhile

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    You need to remove the tiny grub screw (It’s very small) with an allen key, then the plunger is free to turn and you can remove it. It’s located at 90 degrees to the plunger.

    Before removing it, measure exactly the position the plunger is in, ie from the tip to the opposite side of the pivot and reinstall in the same position in the new lever.

    PS. the plunger screw head on mine was covered with a blob of glue or similar which i heated and scraped off.


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  2. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    If you've loosened the grub screw that's the most annoying bit. With the plunger? Yes they are Loctited in which is a sure fire sign they aren't assembled at Mandello as they don't know what Loctite is there! If it won't unscrew from the *back* end of the plunger hold the plunger in a vice with soft jaws and wind the barrel off the plunger with the lever. Make sure when you install the barrel and plunger in the new lever that you adjust the plunger correctly before nipping up the grub screw. Too far out and the piston of the master cylinder won't clear the freeing port in the cylinder body and when it gets hot the clutch will slip and you'll be riding the thrust bearing. Too far in and you'll have insufficient stroke of the master cylinder to free the clutch properly.
  3. HarveyMushman

    HarveyMushman Long timer

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    Thanks, gents. I did measure the plunger's adjustment setting already.

    I just inherited a vice, conveniently enough. This as good as an excuse as any to install it tomorrow.
  4. Xlratr

    Xlratr Been here awhile

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    Good luck! Mine turned out easily enough.
    The levers are nice aren’t they?


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  5. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    Our 1400 motor is now up and running! Not in a Stelvio but same engine, different bike.

    [​IMG]
    rmance, crk, aftCG and 11 others like this.
  6. joenuclear

    joenuclear Long timer

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    Awesome!
  7. Doc.

    Doc. Been here awhile

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    Single-Skin Pipes, I bet they save a bit of weight.
  8. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    Titanium single skin pipes, and there is a reason we prefer them that isn't just because they are pretty.......
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  9. HarveyMushman

    HarveyMushman Long timer

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    I like the brake lever. :D

    The plunger on the clutch lever is not budging. The set screw is apparently stripped--it turns unevenly in either direction, to no effect either way. With plenty of heat and my "new" vice I still couldn't turn the plunger loose. Not having all day to fool with it I put the OE lever back on the bike so I can ride to work tomorrow.

    It doesn't appear the plunger adjustor is available separately. A whole new clutch lever assembly is a bit pricey ($170) if I only aim to harvest the plunger bit.
  10. hipine

    hipine Been here awhile

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    The "turns unevenly" bit makes me ask, is it the thread that's stripped, or just the Allen socket? If it's just the socket, it's possible that a better Allen wrench (sharper corners) or one of a slightly different size (sometimes SAE sizes can be used to turn a stripped metric or vice versa) might grip it. If not that, then maybe an "EZ-out" or similar tool might move it. It's also possible the wall of the screws is cracked from the Allen socket out to the OD. If that's the case, then the only option is drilling it. If a left-handed drill bit is available that will at least have the possibility of driving the screw out while drilling. Otherwise, it's tough sledding to drill the screw to the point it releases the plunger, remove the plunger, and then re-tap the screw hole to remove the thread bits of the screw.

    Maybe another inmate, or a "bay"er has a used part? Unfortunately there's no guarantee that another used, or even brand new lever doesn't show you the same results as your one does. But if it did work, you could re-sell the lever part to someone who's worried about breaking one.

    Last but not least is to fabricate new bits if that's an option for you.

    Good luck!

    -Dave G.
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  11. hipine

    hipine Been here awhile

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    Reminder from previous post: Problem is a "surging" of idle after a long ride. Detailed description, this idle variation is actually a stumble, where misses occur, the idle sags, and then picks up again. This to a degree that it "rocks" the bike back and forth while sitting at a light. I have to manually hold the engine at 2k RPM to avoid the variation, or it will eventually stumble more and more till it stalls. Putting the bike in neutral or holding the clutch has no impact on the behavior.

    Yesterday I pulled the battery box to access the air intake hose to the stepper. I put the battery on the ground next to the bike and used jumpers to connect the battery to the bike so I could run the engine with a big garage fan to keep temps happy (did not exceed 105C on GuzziDiag).

    I sprayed SeaFoam Top End Cleaner (the one with the LONG spray tube) into the stepper intake hose. I followed a practice of spraying for about 6 seconds until the motor would just show a little sign of rev change, pause for 8 or 10 seconds, and then modulate the throttle a bit a few times to stir things up in the intake area. Then repeat spraying.

    On the first few passes through this routine the modulated throttle portion showed a LOT of "oil smoke" looking discharge from the exhaust. I took this as a good sign that cleaning was happening.

    I also read somewhere here that the stepper goes through a full stroke closed and open over the course of an ignition key cycle so I also did a few passes where I'd spray the cleaner in, then turn the key off, wait maybe 30 seconds, then turn the key on, pause for 5 seconds, and re-start the engine. This seemed to create a bit more "oil smoke" so good for a little more cleaning I thought. Then I went back to the original regimen until I had steady state, almost no smokiness any time in the cycle. All together I might have used 1/3 - 1/2 the can of SeaFoam.

    Followed this with a new throttle body synch (found slightly off as could be expected from cleaning) and set to spot on at 3k and idle. This was interesting. While doing the idle synch, I could SEE a cylinder miss on the manometer (quick dip in the mercury level on a single cylinder) even when I couldn't feel it in the bike. These dips always happened on the right cylinder, and would occur once every 5 or 6 seconds. Changing the CO trim from +5 to +10 eliminated those periodic dips so I left it at +10 and did a TPS reset.

    While I was at it, since I'd also read here about loose coil-end spark plug wires, I pulled the fairing sides, inspected those, and made sure the wires were a good tight interference fit in the sockets.

    Took the bike out for some short 10-12mi loops, stopping along the way to see how it idled at stops. All seemed to be very well. No sign of the stumbling, and the bike was absolutely up to steady state temp throughout. Ambient air temps were in the high 40s (F) during all of this. After all that functional work, I decided to do a little fun work and installed the MyTech tool box. Nice piece of kit that, except the door does interfere a little bit with the factory luggage rack when trying to get it to open a full 90 degrees. No biggie.

    In the evening I took the bike for a nice ride of about 40 miles of continuous riding. This was from m home at 9000 ft up in the Rockies down to a Denver suburb that sits at about 5500. Speeds ranged from 35-80mph along the way. By the time I get down the hill in the evening, temps have dropped a little and so are at about 48F down at the lower elevation (same as they were during my test and tune earlier in the day). First traffic light at the end of that trip, the bike is again rocking and stumbling and I have to hold it at 2k RPM to avoid stalls. At this point I realize that "you know, the only time I see this is when I bring the bike down here."
    :scratch

    After dinner I ride her back up the hill. I make all the lights near this end of the journey so I don't get to assess until I'm back in my driveway (ambient temps down to about 38F by this time). Pull in the clutch, come to a stop, and sit there 2-3 minutes as if I'm at a stoplight. NO rocking, NO stumble. Maybe a single miss or two, but steady idle at about 1200rpm just like I had in the afternoon.

    I have to add that the bike runs fabulously any time it's off idle. Super smooth, almost zero backfire on overrun, really really nice.

    My next plan is to go back to the factory BIN map that has the oxygen sensors turned on and see if that gives me more consistent idle across the elevation changes (I seem to recall it did as I didn't have this issue before the map swap, but we'll see). If it does, I'll try and tweak it a little with the CO trim to see if I can get rid of the backfires & improve ride ability without impacting idle.

    Any suggestions out there would be greatly appreciated.

    -Dave G.
  12. Gillmeister

    Gillmeister Adventurer

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    Oddometer:
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    Australia
    Mine was doing exactly that.
    Ran fine above idle , stalled , ran rough at idle etc etc.
    Traced it to the injector boots , they were beginning to split and letting in moisture.
    Only needs the slightest bit of moisture.
    Right side was the problem , as due to the sidestand lean.
    Cut the boots off , blew them out , let them dry out , little bit of ACF 50 , ran them for a day uncovered , sunny day of course.
    Some heat shrink and tape later, runs perfectly.
    Have got new non original boots from Thunderbikes in Perth, although haven't put them on yet.

    Regards
    Craig
  13. Xlratr

    Xlratr Been here awhile

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    That's annoying :-(
    When you say set screw, do you mean the small grub screw? The plunger will not turn until that grub screw is released so getting that out with an extractor might solve the problem. Of course you'll then need to source a replacement grub screw.
    Sorry it's giving you a hard time!




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  14. markcarovilli

    markcarovilli Adventurer

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  15. Doc.

    Doc. Been here awhile

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    Mine did that too, the Socket in the Grub Screw is rounded-out, the 'uneven' turning you mention is the Allen Key slipping.
    Is the Allen Key worn? They don't last forever, and even a slight amount of wear will render it useless, on the smaller sizes at least.
    Try a brand new one if your's doesn't have nice sharp corners.
    You could try a bit of fine Grinding Paste, poke a drop in the Socket of the Grub Screw, and force the Key in, the grit will help it grip.
    A bit of heat will help as well, and some penetrating oil.

    Nothing worked with mine, it was properly seized, may as well have been welded in!
    I stripped the thread on the Plunger getting it out, so I had to machine up a new one.

    Might be time for you to get one of these . . .
    ClutchLeverMod.jpg
    It reduces the effort at the Lever by around 20%.
    http://www.bolcatoracing.com/prodotto/raccordo-per-leva-frizione/
  16. HarveyMushman

    HarveyMushman Long timer

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    Yes, the little one that takes a 1.5mm allen key.

    Thanks, I might just do that!

    Thanks for all the tips. The allen key shouldn't be worn--it's not often I have to use the 1.5mm wee booger. But I just inherited a bunch of tools, some allen keys among them, so I'll see if I have another that might work better.

    That lever effort reducer is intriguing . . .
  17. hipine

    hipine Been here awhile

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    Since it's a 1.5mm you might try using a good condition, high quality 1/16" wrench. 1.5mm = 0.0590" across the flats, where a 1/16" wrench is 0.0625" across the flats. It may fit and fit more tightly enough to help you get the job done. The sharpness of the corners on the wrench - as manufactured, not just due to wear - is everything when things get tough.

    -Dave G.
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  18. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    Heat! Lotsa heat!
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  19. hipine

    hipine Been here awhile

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    Thanks Craig! That's a tricky one. My bike's been dry before and through this issue, and the boots are in good shape. But I know many here have spoken of boot deterioration so I'm sure a picture of your new boots would be appreciated. Everyone will face the issue at one time or another.

    This afternoon I swapped back to the factory map and zero CO trim, as came out of the bike a couple weeks ago. No other changes at all. I noticed right off that the bike is idling at 1400 on the factory map where it targeted about 1250 on the 44g map (I preferred that lower idle, but know of no way to change it other than TunerPro). But long story short I made the same ride as yesterday. Difference was that today it was about 15 degrees warmer all the way through, and the idle stayed consistent throughout the ride. No missing, no stumbling, no trying to die, no need to touch the throttle while idling at stoplights.

    That said, I'm taking the good with the bad because the off-idle twitchiness I don't like in the factory map is also back. But now that I've had a little more experience riding this bike and getting used to the throttle control it likes, I'm not getting the popping on over-run that was so annoying before so that might have been helped by the intake cleaning and throttle cable tightening I did in the mean time.

    For now I'll use the factory map. Looks like my bike prefers the help of the closed loop system in trying to deal with wide altitude swings. Riding opportunities will get less and less in coming weeks. I'll have some fork seal, exhaust gasket, and swingarm/CARC maintenance to keep me busy.

    Thanks for all the help!

    -Dave G.
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  20. Lupin 3rd

    Lupin 3rd Raygun Gothic

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    Please tell me there's a build thread somewhere so I can go there and wank myself into oblivion!