Steering with Your Feet ?

Discussion in 'Trials' started by Dirt Dud, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. Dirt Dud

    Dirt Dud Been here awhile

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    So I hurt my wrist and wanted your to see what you guys think about the importance of steering with your feet ? I was a enduro rider that is now aspiring to become a good trials rider for a 60 year old . And the wrist is forcing me to ride differently , that is a good thing also since I really need to improve ! Thanks for your help :smile6
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  2. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    Ray Peters always said that the handlebars were there simply for a place to rest your hands.
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  3. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    Practice with your left hand behind your back.
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  4. k-moe

    k-moe Long timer

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    If you put your feet on the bars you can steer with them.
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  5. Paul466

    Paul466 Adventurer

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    I’m “retired” from MX racing after destroying my wrist for the second time, There is a company called ALL SPORT DYNAMICS that made a custom carbon wrist guard for me, it really made a difference as far as pain and support, it has different size inserts so you can adjust wrist angle limit, not cheap ,but I swear by it

    Attached Files:

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  6. Dirt Dud

    Dirt Dud Been here awhile

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    I was trying to find a video of Ryan Young talking about it but I cant find it .
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  7. MT 007

    MT 007 Been here awhile

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    first thing that comes up if you google Ryan Young video :)…
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  8. alpineboard

    alpineboard Been here awhile

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    Really got the feel of feet turns by open grass area, 1st gear slow , left turn then right turn , initiate/complete the turn getting the bike to lean over plenty with each foot. Complete each turn approx. 90 degrees. Over exaggerate the pressure and lean, with the feet to get the feel of it.
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  9. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    What riders say about the role of feet tends to be simplistic. What they can say and what they will do thus may be different.

    In my classes I used to teach the typical way as in over simple: legs (feet) do the steering, and the arms just go along for the ride. The simplification was meant to reduce the natural tendency of doing way too much ineffective stuff with the arms (hands), which is the first inclination of riders. But that's not the whole story, so now, while I emphasize legs legs legs, I also talk about and demonstrate the role of arms.

    The primary signal for control is from the legs and the secondary signal is from the arms.

    Arms as cables between the attachment at the shoulder and the 'clamps' of the hands affixing the cables to the bars is higher technique, requiring contra-intuitive reprogramming of bad habits from the butt-on-seat mentality that predominates motorcycling. Thus the primary signal must be emphasized, but you really do steer and track with both the legs and the arms via the four points of connection to the bike. Try riding no hands and the role the arms play will become rapidly apparent.

    The devil is in the details regarding why, when, and how to proportion both.

    A more correct way to wheelie is arms as cables attached to shoulder and bars. You crouch slowy, throw the body back, the cables snap tight, and you wheelie. You are still attached at the bars. And if you intend to hop the front end left or right (hopping is a derivation of a wheelie), you will add subtle impulses to the bars via the hands, sometimes even flicking the bars to push the front end left or right.

    High level nuances between legs and arms is hard to do as well as teach, but it sums to
    the four points of attachment with:

    - static forces via weighting as influenced by body position

    - low-frequency high amplitude application of force

    - the quick jab/impulse

    - mixes of the above

    Gripping of bar grips illustrates the list for force types. Baseline small static force down on the palms, with fingers draped and relaxed, only pulsing the grip muscles a vast minority of the time. But sometimes you will grip hard and put a lot of force into the upper-front two attachments of the bike, or impart so strong impulses, push, pull, and flick.

    How much and when requires time and many iteration to learn.

    Consider steering across a side slope with rocks that push laterally on your front and rear tires. If you just stand on the bike arms relaxed you'll get pushed off your desired line. You have combine slow pressure with quick impulses to stay on the desired line.

    Just as Ryan demonstrated 'righting' torques through the steering in the balance section, the same applies when moving forward in the rough.

    Once you learn the subtleties and are doing a lot at the brain stem level, it's easy to lose awareness of the many secondary control signals.

    You know you are proportioning the forces more correctly when your arms aren't turning to worn out noodles quickly, but you will still have some accumulating arm fatigue in a long, difficult section. Not over using the arms allows for full recovery quickly, but you will still be working the arms.

    The more efficient you become, the smoother you look and the less energy will be required to do more advanced things... with all four limbs.
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  10. Gordo83

    Gordo83 Been here awhile

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    Ormstown, Canada has a Vintage Trials, MX, and HS weekend every year (except this one). Mick Andrews holds a school there. One of the first things he does every year is have us steering our bikes with our feet and pegs.
    I'll admit it works, but I find myself not doing it in a section. Old habits are hard to break.
    In your case, it would be very helpful and you would find yourself doing it all the time, because your wrist pain would remind you to use the pegs instead. There's obviously more to it, but he has us just transferring weight from one peg to the other, and the bike just turns on its own.
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  11. Dirt Dud

    Dirt Dud Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the replies they are great skills that I will use in the morning . How I did not find that Ryan Young video ?
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  12. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    Minor fix:

    “The bars are a place to mount the controls”

    He could probably out turn every one of us here with one hand on the bar. :nod
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  13. PSchrauber

    PSchrauber Long timer

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    In short:
    You steer with body weight distribution.
    The feet should be placed so that the footpads are situated on the pegs, that gives you additional up and down travel which can then be used for the right weight distribution if you want for example even more weight to the front or morr weight to the rear.

    For gearing or braking you change temporary the foot position.

    Best book for learning to ride trials bikes Felix Krahnstöver Trial Akrobatik auf zwei Rädern.
    The book is rare and price is rising through the years now around 100 - 150€ for a used one it can be even more!

    So when you have read through it you might sell it for a couple of bucks more.
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  14. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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  15. 10K

    10K Trail Runner

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    Can't see link, not a face booker.
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  16. Greebe

    Greebe Been here awhile

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    Yes steering with feet is important, however I think steering will be the least of your worries as far as stress to your wrist. It will be wheelies, hoping, jumping, zaps, and the variety of other things that is going to cause you more problems in the wrist. I get pretty bad wrist pain that can make it even hard to hold on to the handle bars at times. I just suffer the pain as I love trials. Probably need to see a doctor one of these days.
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  17. Dirt Dud

    Dirt Dud Been here awhile

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    I have an appiontment for thursday since I have learned to go to the doctors and not put it off . I am really looking forward to getting my colonoscopy by a really goood loooking Russian doctor !

    But honestly please go get checked if you think something is wrong it could save your live and change the way you live the rest of your life out . The wrist should be good to go by the Tricky Trialers event this weekend !
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  18. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    Dr's are a bunch of quacks looking for your insurance money. I would of had 4 more knee surgeries according to these experts which would of caused me to have knee repkacements by now. Screw them.
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  19. Dirt Dud

    Dirt Dud Been here awhile

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    At least you went and made that determination many men do not until they are really bad off . I died and was brought back then waited again until the pain was unbearable only to find out I had a twisted stomach . Now if my health is not what it should be I go to the doctor . The one thing have got out of the doctors is to get in shape and eat rite .
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  20. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Dirt Dud, you've had a deep experience so your view has more dimensions.

    I used to check a lot of stuff out, but then figured out the body is just going to do weird stuff, and if you just give it time, it will resolve or at least fly under the radar a while.

    But, Dirt Did is right. Some things can kill you, slowly or quickly. Ignoring some things is just dumb, like the old rancher who won't let a rat gnaw that thing off his nose for years, then next time I see him there is cloth covering the hole where the nose used to be.

    Frustrating is those things we know to be wrong but the med system can't figure it out.

    Lineaway is right about over intervention, however. A friend of mine had some gastric reflux and went to a doc who prescribed a med. There was no off switch to taking that med despite no more symptoms. My friend is now dead because the 4 years of taking those pills zombie style nuked his liver.

    It is unfortunate that we have a system that reacts to (or in some cases causes) sickness instead of first promoting health. But if you are significantly sick, you can live instead of die.
    #20
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