The Beauty & Intensity of Night Riding

Discussion in 'Trials' started by motobene, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. Bonalan65

    Bonalan65 Adventurer

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    I'd be willing to pre-order and prepay .
    #21
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  2. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    I am looking forward to them.

    Planning to get at least 3 for the families bikes, depends on cost if its all 3 at once or over time.

    :thumb
    #22
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  3. rokhopr

    rokhopr 2015 Beta 250 Factory

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    NEOTT is having a night trial at Grand Lake, OK on Saturday July 21st 9 pm to ? These lights should work great and I'm looking forward getting mine as my night vision stinks.
    #23
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  4. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna

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    I'm ready to order two or three for Scorpa/Sherco. One for me and two for Mike and Aaron at the Tryals Shop to test. Let me know what I need to do?
    #24
  5. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

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    Will they fit a KTM!
    #25
  6. broncobowsher

    broncobowsher Long timer

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    A little late to the game, but I have played with this a little as well. I ended up with pretty much the same as what is being made. I couldn't find the stator output of the Sherco so I guessed the homologation bikes probably ran a 35W light and decided to keep the power down to about that level. Got a nice Rigid SRM2 is wide. Picked up a spare number plate and added a piece of old road sign aluminum to strengthen it and give a rigid mounting surface. For power I started with a full wave rectifier. (The Rigid lights have an LED driver and will run on a huge voltage swing and keep an even output) The light was NOT happy with that. Some really weird light output. Compared to putting 12V off a car battery something was very wrong. The dirty DC was too dirty for the light. So I did some actual engineering, guessed idle speed, voltage measured, power draw. Drew the sine wave with rectified power, drew a line off the minimum voltage to the tangent on the slope to plot the time interval that the cap would need to power the light. Went digging through my junk bin until I found an old UPS power supply with a big cap in it. Added that to the rectifier output. Now the light works correctly. Even light at idle. It will pulse/flicker if I lug it down but that can't be sustained. General operation is great.

    The trouble I have with that is it only lights where the fork is aimed and only when the engine is running. So round two, helmet lighting. I was at SEMA and Rigid had just introduced a new light. The Ignite series. Single LED. And the mount is the same as a GoPro. So it will clip right into the GoPro helmet mount. Power supply started off as a pair of 9V batteries in series. Later went to triple 9V to cut the amp draw. Recently got some RC cars and am looking at borrowing one of the Lithium battery packs. Work in progress years later. Still looking for a good way to run the power cord.
    #26
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  7. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Thanks for your interest, guys! My aim was to do the work for you, so you don't have to reinvent wheels :-) And thanks for the technical and light brands feedback, broncobowsher. Much appreciated! I'll look at that light you suggested.

    The type of power produced by carbureted bike lighting circuits is an issue regarding flicker, and the rough power can hard on the circuit boards in LED lights. The lights I am using have tolerated the rough power well, and so far have been quite reliable. On my 250, the flicker isn't objectionable and it goes away in the mid rpms up. I am experimenting with add-ons for additional power conditioning. It's unfortunately, component selection is not as straight forward as I'd like (like you found, broncobowsher). And there's the added expense and packaging of rectifiers and capacitors. Maybe I can find something all together?

    While a bike-powered light is simple and convenient, my bike-mounted light does not HAVE to be powered by the bike. It's really easy to power it with a battery. A higher mAh-capacity battery like the ~1-1/2 pound Li-ion 3.0 or 5.0 or 5.8 Ah 18V Makita batteries I use on all my cordless power tools is almost overkill. Lots of stored power, long lasting, and they charge fast.

    I salvaged a battery-interface plate from a worn-out drill. On one of my prototypes I had the battery mounted to the number plate. A better place to mount one of these powerful batteries, on top of the handlebar clamps:

    Makita on Sherco.PNG
    The photo makes the battery look too big, but it isn't.

    At the end of the short cord is a connector to plug into the light's connector. The on/off mini switch on the light allows leaving the battery connected. I will make a mount plate for the position above for the Makita battery to again compare battery versus bike power, and not have to be tethered.

    Most of us have cordless tools. When you already have the batteries and charger, all you need is a way to connect to a light.

    I have also run a light of this battery in the bottom of a hydration pack. I'm tethered to the bike with a cord, which is at times clumsy, especially when I forget and try to walk off

    If you are fortunate enough to own a fuel-injected bike, you are in luck in terms of quality of light power!

    The below 2005 Montesa 4RT wiring diagram (all-lights version), shows a 3-phase alternator (three field coils) and regulator/rectifier that powers everything on the bike:

    4RT Wiring Diagram.PNG

    The more typical carbureted trials bike separates power between field coils for ignition power. There is a single-phase field coil dedicated for for light and cooling fan power.

    The following 2005 wiring diagram by Jim Snell (bike brand redacted) shows how on some carbureted bikes the lights are voltage regulated, but there is no subsequent rectifier for the lights. The rectifier is only for the fan.

    2007 Kokusan Digital 2 Wiring Diagram - No GasGas.jpg

    Some older air-cooled trials bikes (no cooling fans) have separate regulator and rectifier, but the rectifier is for the lighting circuit. Light voltage on one of those bikes - if previous owners did not remove those components - provides somewhat smoothed current. My 1989 Fantic, for example. Bikes of that era had larger tungsten lights that produced just enough light for night riding, but not great. Much better than the dinky modern OE LED setups though.

    An on-helmet light by itself will work, but if you look to the side, what's in front of the bike tends to blank out of your peripheral vision. An on-helmet light as a supplement to a bike-mounted light is a good solution, even if you don't run it all the time. I found this out when my son an I had a night adventure. We took off at night from Sipapu Ski area and went up the nearby Gallegos Canyon. The trail is very rough and it was pitch black. That was a bunch of fun! We were only using bike-mounted lights, earlier, dimmer prototypes. There were times when we had to skirt large fallen trees by making a loop into the forest. A helmet-mounted light would have allowed scouting out options without turning the bars to scan off to the side.

    MINIMUM BACKUP LIGHT WHILE RIDING
    Our only backup lights that night were headlamps in our hydration packs. We had a 'learning experience' back on the ski slope side. My son was riding behind me down the steepest part of the loop trail of the competition. He puckered his sphincter at the top of a particularly steep spot, killing the motor as he was sliding between trees and rocks. I rode back up and found him in the dark, taking a breather. I made a note to self about the need to run a backup light when it's pitch black, especially.

    Minimally a single-AA battery LED flashlight or a small headlamp zip tied to the bars is enough to cast a 'safety glow' during time and place with no ambient light from moon or light pollution.

    I've some concern that a strong on-helmet strong might be distracting as a backup, as the strong beam will dance around with head movement.

    ON-BODY BACKUP
    I carry a Coast HL27 in my hydration pack or Carhartt pants pocket when night riding. I can find it by feel, then use it to find things, work on a light or bike, or even walk out.

    The need for this became apparent when I rode Grand Lake, OK below the dam last year one steamy summer night. A fellow came along for the ride. All he had for light was a cheap LED head lamp zip tied to the handlebars. And not well, mind you, as when he hit a small step the batteries popped out and scattered all over. We found him muttering and groping for them in the dark. Had he been riding alone....
    #27
  8. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    I have seen a Cyclops setup on a KTM on Gordy's bike (ask him). The trials number plate is the basis for mounting my light. Most modern offroad bikes are stuck on USD forks that are mongo big at the number plate area.

    For now, I'm sticking with trials applications with this light.
    #28
  9. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Now I'm eyeing a second light with one connector instead of the Sherco-Scorpa two connectors. Or maybe just the one light in one connector and I have an optional 2-into-1 converter for mounting to Sherco-Scorpa. Hmm.

    What led me in this direction was when I was talking to Ryan about whether or not the connectors on the 2018 bikes were the same, he said they often remove the lighting bits out of habit, so their bikes often have zero light connectors.

    So... why not default to a one-connector light with one-connector universal harness? The vast majority of the bikes are single connector anyway.

    Dang. This is making my head hurt.
    #29
  10. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Just bought a $140 Japanese wire crimping tool. Now I'm even deeper in the hole.
    #30
  11. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    I pulled back from release and took time to redesign some details. One universal light with one connector, instead of 2-connector Sherco-Scorpa with adapter for a universal single-connector setup. This simplifies the product offering. Another change allows for optional power conditioning. So a base light, and the option to buy power conditioning.

    The above has delayed things but been well worth it. It's better to take the time to aim better before releasing the arrow from the bow.
    #31
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  12. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna

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    Thanks for all your work. As long as you make so a simple guy like me, can somehow plug it into my existing Scorpa wiring... I'm a happy guy!
    #32
  13. Bronco638

    Bronco638 Nobody Home

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    I'd be interested in a light kit, for my '18 250 ST, as well. Let us know if we can buy directly from you or thru RYP. Thanks Chris!
    #33
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  14. PSchrauber

    PSchrauber Long timer

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    Obelix: Die Spinnen die Amerikaner.
    #34
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  15. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    Huh. Weirdo me came up with this after your post -

    61MH7QDQDYL._SX369_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    :D
    #35
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  16. PSchrauber

    PSchrauber Long timer

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    Yes Obelix knows a lot:

    [​IMG]
    #36
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  17. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna

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    Asterix! High School French Class Flashback!
    #37
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  18. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Je n'ai lu qu'Asterix et Obélix en français!
    #38
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  19. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Update!

    The product was redesigned to reduce complexity while increasing capability. I tested the changes last night, moving lights between
    the 125 and the 250.

    I have simplified the product to one light for all applications, by basing the light on one connector for universal application. The kit will contain a harness with connector to fit the light to any full-size trials bike. The instructions will include how to convert the stock Sherco-Scorpa 2-connector wiring harness to one connector (your stock LED headlamp will still work by plugging into the one connector). I converted both my Shercos yesterday. It was a relaxed 30 minutes each to do the work.

    The updates also address dropping in future options with no rewiring. An on-board male-female connector allows for changing the light with no wiring work. That connector is also where options can hook up, like added power conditioning to reduce the minor amount of flicker that happens at idle and just above. That has not bothered me, but it might bother some of you, so I wanted to be able to address that with an add-on. I'm thinking of other add-ons too. So once you have the base light, future options are possible.

    Let's say you have the Sherco-Scorpa, so you don't need the included connector and wires. You can then use the connector and wires to hook up to a battery.

    More on all that later.

    An added experiment during last night's testing was fitting stronger light (16 versus 9 LEDs) on one unit just to make sure my chosen light isn't under powered. The stronger light's quality of beam wasn't as good, and the added light wasn't really a plus. It brought my pupils diameters down to adjust to the beam center, so even with the added light, peripheral perception was about the same. The current favorite light produces a smooth, wide beam with no hot spots or uneven edges. Very nice light!

    When I leave a lighted area of my shop and venture into the dark, at first the one on-board light seems weak. The my eyes adjust and the light becomes right for section riding, and adequate on the loop. I just leave it at one angle and don't need to adjust it while changing from section to loop-trail mode. I'll attempt to shoot photos of the light beam in a section and on a trail.

    The first RYP order of 10 will go out Monday, latest. Ryan said they plan to use six for themselves, leaving only four available for this first run. Ryan will set retail pricing based on what he sees in the kit, and what I charge him. I shot an initial figure at him, but I've since learned more about parts prices and especially the labor involved (which is extensive).

    My next production run is started to satisfy past and local commitments. The next build for RYP will take place shortly after the second run is done, and how many will depend on demand. If too few buy from RYP or from me at local events, the effort will shrivel and die. "Man that's a really cool light! Where can I get one? Sorry, due to lack of demand I stopped making them..." But let us hope.
    #39
  20. PSchrauber

    PSchrauber Long timer

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    Me in German which is easier to read, in French as not all are translated in German this:

    [​IMG]

    Of course not to forget all stories from: Spirou and Fantasio, et Gaston from André Franquin who is from Belgium btw.
    and John Difool Incal of light from Alexandro Jodorowsky and Moebius.

    Moebius was and is responsible and also the inventor of the outfit and costumes and cool extraterrestrials in the first 6 Star Wars movies.
    #40
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